Dealing with other mums and child minders

[Emmanal]

Did I over-react?

I have a lovely lady who looks after my 3 year old daughter after school and we have been working together for a few months now. I am really pleased with her and my daughter loves her.

I have drawn up a work contract so her work can be declared and she gets proper cover: it's a flippin bureaucratic nightmare in France.

A few weeks ago, she asked if she could also look after another child from the same school so she could earn more money and I accepted. The other child is lovely and gets on well with my daughter. Everything seemed fine.

The other mother is a bit focused on herself and has never had professional care for her daughter and is new to it: organisational aspects eg where will they both sleep? which home will they go to after school? what will they eat? I asked for a meeting to cover these questions and she didn't seem happy about it. The child minder gave us a list of requests: eg 2 chairs of the same size, interesting toys for their level, money to buy food etc.

I have started buying what she asked for and have handed over the money. The other mother has been saying for the last few weeks: my house is great, they'll spend most of their time there, I have loads of toys that will keep them both happy, I have amazing equipment for children. The minder started joining in with these comments; they have been friends for over 20 years. I felt a little insulted. I am a single mum and true my daughter doesn't have tons of toys but there is enough for 2 children to play with for a few hours.

They have stayed at my place twice and they stayed at the other home for the first time yesterday. I went to pick her up and she was seated at an adult table on an adult chair with no supervision (at home, I have a child sized table and chairs but I have been told that the equipment at the other home is infinitely superior). I have a space in my living room for a toy box and a few large toys. The other living room has one children's kitchen stuffed in a corner that is difficult to get to. I have a book shelf at the right height in the living room full of children's books, I didn't see anything like that in this home. I felt a bit offended at these sideways comments that my house isn't good enough and more so when I saw that my home is probably more child friendly. I kept quiet about it.

I stayed there for a chat and to find out how the day went; my daughter was playing with a doll belonging to the other child. The other child snatched it from her. The mother tried to get her to give it back. When the little girl refused, the mother said "ok, there's nothing I can do". The child minder didn't even intervene. My daughter was heart broken; she cried so much I got a pain in my chest (btw how long will that pain in the chest when a child is upset go on for?). I tried to get my daughter to leave so we could go home and play with her doll. I tried to console her but there was nothing to do. Nobody else seemed bothered that the other child had snatched her toy. It went through my head to say "S doesn't want to share her doll right now" and I decided to say "S doesn't want you to play with her doll". Unfortunately, it came out wrong and I said "S doesn't want to share her doll right now". The other mother got mad "oh no, we're not going to start this!". I left with the child minder, we had a conversation:

me: what did I do wrong there
child minder: well you said she doesn't want to share
me: well it's true
child minder: well she doesn't want your daughter taking her toys home with her every night.

I thought that was a bit harsh because we had no intention of taking the toys home with us.

This morning I saw the child minder and she tried to smooth the way by explaining everything she is doing to get the girls to play together and share.

The incident happened because I was frazzled after a horrible day's work and maybe over-reacted. The other mother made very little effort to get her daughter to share and the child minder did nothing. I think because the other two are close friends, I am outside that circle and the boundaries are all fuzzy. I am not proud of what I said about the girl refusing to share. I think if it had been a social visit, I would not have been so upset and wouldn't have said anything. But we have drawn up an official contract and I try to abide by it. The contract doesn't cover handling behaviour but I expected support. I also encourage my daughter to share when S is in our home.

Am I wrong to be so upset? I've never felt like this about children's bickering before

I don't think you said anything wrong at all. In case you haven't realised though this situation is NEVER going to work out, it has disaster written all over it

I don’t think it’s a good idea to have kids in other peoples houses rather than a childminder’s own home set up for purpose. You will always get fighting between the kids because it’s their territory and there’s another kid in there touching their stuff. I think you should start looking for alternative care because this just isn’t going to work. I don’t think you did anything wrong in saying she wasn’t sharing because she wasn’t!

Sounds like a strange set up. I don't really under stand why the childminder is going to your houses and not her own. I would find alternative care.
However, other child does not have to share her toys and your dd should take her own toys which she also doesn't have to share. Snatching is the problem.

Is this more like a nanny share?

Surely there’s a middle ground here, which would be the childminders home, and therefore the childminders toys for the children to play with.

I don't think you have over reacted. Unfortunately this new arrangement is never going to work, and as these women have been friends for so long, I think you are always going to come off worse. No matter how fair the childminder is trying to be, their relationship will always play a huge part in how things are done. I totally agree with what the other posters have said: it's not going to end well. It's a shame this has happened, but I would find alternative care for your child.

Thank you for helping me feel normal! So glad to hear I am not some sort of nutter!
I was thinking it might not work but thought I was over reacting and looking for a drastic way out of something that could work.
Maybe it is particular to France, this is a fairly common arrangement. I think the fact that they are friends messes things up.

As above^. Why can't they stay at childminders, which is neutral territory, and the other child won't feel posessive over her toys? Keep to childminders toys. Otherwise, the other child is confused, because it is after all, her house, whilst not necessarily nice behaviour. If you can't negotiate this, or by that I mean they may well be very resitant to it, this is potentially a continuing issue, where other mother feels more in control of the arrangement, as its her house

You’re attempting to do a nanny share, but what is messing it up is that they are friends, and the nanny is not being professional probably because of the friendship...

What are you getting out of this? You’re paying the same price and having to get your child from another home? I would have refused this.

Sounds like a disaster in the making! Don't they have registered childminders over in France?
What do you know about the minder? Do they have CRB (equivalent) over there?
You might as well get yourself a proper nanny and stop using random people.

Also, childminders in France are called “assistante maternelle” and they look after the kids in their own home, not the parents’.
But an assistante maternelle is officially accredited, is registtered with the PMI, get inspected, etc.
This lady is not a childminder, she’s a nanny (“nounou”)

I think the childminder isn't the problem. She worked in a nursery for 30 years and is fully qualified. She has been perfect up until now.

I think the problem is the friendship that exists between these 2 and whether I am ready to deal with it, either by accepting to always be on the back seat (not my style at all) or having to fight to have my voice heard.

I'm paying less an hour now than when my daughter was alone with her.

@ Laureline: it's a garde partagé. My daughter had assistante maternelle before she started school.

If the parents are there I wouldn't expect the childminder to intervene, it's not her place to override a parent.
It's the other parent who is BU. What parent sees their child snatch a toy and not do anything about it?! How selfish!
I would pull out of the arrangement.

Hi,

What is BU?

thanks

Interesting OP. This happened while you were there, so makes me wonder what happens when you are not there. The other child clearly is not sharing and has no problem grabbing things from your daughter. Childminder excuse is not a real excuse. Why in earth would they even think it’s about going gonecwith a toy. It’s about sharing toys while there.

This situation will not work because (a) other child not disciplined about sharing (b) their grabbing behaviour not dealt with (c) long standing friendship between childminder and other mother, causing impartial treatment of your daughter/her needs, interaction with you. This will only get worse.

As others have suggested, look for alternative care. Being in France and you have a contract, please do read what you need to do to get out of it. Be watchful in case there’s clear breach by childminder too.

Use this as a learning exercise for next childminder arrangement (and contract). Best of luck to you.

Get a nounou. Where are you in France? I have just finished with one - she looked after 2 of my children at her own home and was brilliant. She has a space.

PM me , I can help you find the list in your area.

BU is "being unreasonable". As in AIBU.

I wouldn't like it because I'd think that childminder and her friend would sit there chatting and ignoring my child, or she'd side with the friend's child whenever there was conflict. I wouldn't be happy paying for a service that meant my child wasn't going to be getting equal attention. Change childminder :(

Sharing a childminder sounds like a total disaster - I wouldn’t continue, it will never work. S

None of us know really what a garde partage means. It certainly isn't what UK folk would think is a childminder. You're barking up the wrong tree here really, asking if your childminder is being UR, when it isn't a childminder situation; we don't have knowledge of le systeme francais as a matter of course.

But your childminder isn't a childminder, OP?

I am French and my mother is a childminder (in France) and to be a childminder she has to mind children at her own home, she also wouldn't have to ask you permission to mind more children as a childminder can legally look after as many children as allowed by the government depending on her house size and years of experience. It seems like you have entered some kind of nanny share, and if you think your child is being neglected I would personally back out from the agreement.

Hi,

Okay, maybe I used the wrong title, child minder. And I'm getting a lot of questions or comments about that. Thanks for that by the way.

But my reason for posting is: AIBU in expecting another mother to tell her child to share her toy, when that child has snatched it from my daughter? The two people I was with suggested I was wrong but I think not....