AIBU and Trying to Label Her? Help!

[ConcreteUnderpants]

Hi. Hoping for some help and advice as feeling confused about my 9 year DD2's behaviour.

Hard to put it in a nutshell but...

Imagination: superb. Often lives in her own little world, talking to herself. In fact rarely plays with toys, just her and her imagination. Normally she is an animal and apparently actually 'sees' the living room as the African plains. I've encouraged this as she's always been wonderfully odd, but she is 9 now and this shows no sign of abating.

Attention: distracted by everything. Zones out totally at school and imagines pens playing together/spiders leapfrogging on the ceiling etc. Told me she tried to tell her brain to stop imagining and pay attention to the teacher, but it doesnt listen. Poor sense of planning and memory (Unless it involves animal facts).
She has no problems with speech or articulation, but often I am talking to her and she just comes out with totally unrelated random things.

Clothes: would walk around naked if she could but doesnt have any sensory issues

Hygeine: have to remind her to clean her teeth/brush hair etc. but she will do when nagged. Still not dry at night (usual toddler age for daytime dryness) although we are using an alarm for this, there is no improvement so far.

Emotional things: seemingly neutral when grandad or beloved (and I mean beloved!) dog died. The happiest child I've ever known.
Hardly ever see sadness in her, and then it is jist fleeting. Advised me to "just think of polar bears" when she saw me crying last.

School work: in pretty much the bottom sets. Very poor handwriting. Has meltdowns with homework/ spellings - asks for help, and then gets frustrated, angry and distressed.

Apologies this is so long. I've been reading about autism and dyspraxia and I've previously spoken to the school about it, but she is quiet and well behaved there. Last year's teacher saw her imagination and daydream a lot, but said she had imrpoved loads, especially in maths, and just put it down to DD2 being DD2, i.e. a bit quirky.

Was wondering whether to speak to SEN teacher or GP. DD1 was extremely bright and academic and I accept that DD2 is totally different, so wonder if I'm looking for issues that aren't there.

Autistic girls are different to boys. Girls can display the meltdowns, sensory, social issues but disappear in school as they become more withdrawn. Autistic girls tend to blend and go unnoticed keeping their worse behaviour for a comfortable setting like their home.

No I don't you are being unreasonable at all. But I wouldn't necessarily look at autism as much as ADD (not ADHD) and dyspraxia.

But i do think even if there's is an applicable label it might be more stress chasing it that just putting in a bit if extra help and support yourself. There's less and less available for even severely affected kids and what you do get is mostly a compromise on what you actually need. Many NHS therapists seem to set the bar so high on who they'll actually treat and won't report the full extent of what your child needs because they know they can't provide it.

If you're worried I would put together some money and get a private Ed Psych assessment. That really would be the best way to put your mind at rest and get the best help possible.

(EG I've got a child who has been turned down for physiotherapy via the local service, but actually is being treated by a national centre for excellence thanks to a referral from a private consultant)

Have a look at ADD. Write all your concerns down and take it to the gp for a chat.

Thanks. I'm aware of the boys/girls thing, which is why I feel even more concerned that she'll slip under the radar.
She has started getting upset about how she is falling behind at school (not sure if that's actually possible the first few weeks into Year 3, but it certainly gives me an idea of how she feels)

I'll have a look at ADD after the school run...

Get a diagnosis. It’s not a label it is so freeing to affirm her for who she is. And it means you can get help and support for all of you.

Oh god, she sounds delightful (she doesn’t carry guinea pigs round in a bucket and dance slowly in the middle of the school hall, does she, like a friend of ours as a child?).

On death, I wonder if she’s less affected because in her mind and imagination, they really are still there and gambolling on the African plains in the living room. At that age, I’d already read enough books about the afterlife being an amazing romantic adventure that I didn’t really ‘get’ the permanence and change of death.

Sounds like my son at that age. He has a diagnosis of ADD and Dyspraxia, as well as sensory processing disorder.
I work with parent Carers and it’s not unusual for girls to not be diagnosed until their teen years when issues become more apparent. I would say if you think she has additional needs then push to be seen by an EDucational psychologist as putting things in place now will be of benefit to her in the long run.

Yes she is delightful! She is so 'weird' and imaginative, I love it. And have always encouraged her to carry on with being so different. I'm so proud of her - she is a funny, loving child, goes in to an extra help club before school, spends 2 lunchtimes a week at a homework club and never moans, just gets on with it.

Often I feel I am constantly nagging at her and I get so cross and frustrated . Everyday the same things, sent upstairs for something then gets distracted and forgets, a wee straight after we get home results in her shoes and clothes on the bathroom floor.

I know she doesn't have as much attention as she used to (I've got a demanding toddler and mental health issues) but again, never complains, just goes off to her room and becomes a wolf or something.
I've tried solutions (such as putting up hooks, moving wash baskets for those 2 examples), but will readily admit I'm not as good as being consistent as I should be due to my MH.

I know I'm a crap mother, especially as if i admit in selfish honesty, I suppose I also want a diagnosis of something to excuse her (i.e. she isnt stupid or lazy) and learn how to deal with it as not listening/following instructions etc drives me mad. And if i go off at her, within 10 seconds, she behaves like I never said anything, which makes me even more mad.

Admitting all of that makes me feel like even more of a shit mother than I usually do. Particularly now I realise it's probably not her fault.

Is she Year 3, OP (which is usually 7-8) or is she 9 (usually Year 5)? Makes a big difference to my response!

Stop the 'crap mother' bit (I do that to myself too, but my kids apparently disagree). Your child isn't 'crap' for being herself and muddling through, and neither are you.

Just started Year 4 (only very recently had her 9th birthday so one of the oldest in in the class)

What?? You're NOT a crap mother. I know I don't know you, but your love and appreciation of your daughter comes through in every word you write. It has moved me almost to tears and I work with children and their families every day. With regards to a seeking some further assessment/considering a specific diagnosis, in my experience, for some children and young people, a 'label' can actually be a really helpful positive thing for them. It can help them to understand and 'own' their own strengths and vulnerabilities and know that there are other people who may also think and learn like they do. I would imagine that as your daughter sounds like she is coping well with mainstream school additional ongoing support/funding is unlikely, but there may be some initial support/advice etc. around helping with attention and listening/following spoken instructions etc. I can't see that a visit to the GP or a discussion with perhaps an independent Educational Psychologist (the statutory service can be very difficult to access), if that could be a possibility for you, would be a bad idea at all.

It's the very definition of parenthood to be simultaneously enchanted and infuriated by your own children's quirks!

OMG I have just done various online tests for ADD and they seem to have been written for my DD! Generally coming back with Combined ADD (she is skinny as anything as can never keep still, leaping and running rather than leg swinging).

I only know 'typical' ADHD children whose behaviour is so different from DD's so never considered it.

I can't thank you enough for pointing me in this direction. I honestly feel like a light bulb has been switched on regarding her behaviour!
Now awaiting a phone call about an appointment with SEN teacher. No idea what to do then. Make a GP appointment?

This does scream ASD to me and yes I would have her assessed. You sound like a wonderful mother who has accepted her daughter as she is and probably for that reason you have a daughter who you describe as "the happiest child I've ever known".

Yes, a GP appointment, then ask for a referral to a Paediatrician. You might need to be relatively insistent, but I would push for the referral to be made as soon as possible as there is likely to be a wait of a few months. You can always cancel it later if you chance your mind or find the support you'd like elsewhere.

This thread is pretty outing, so I'm kind of hoping that the SEN teacher is a MNetter. It's so much easier to write these things down than reel off what I think is amiss and sound neurotic and precious.

Am also finding it quite difficult to know how to phrase things. Apart from knowing 2 people with 2 ADHD kids, I have absolutely no experience of SEN and seem to be stuck in the appalling terminology of my youth - special children, things wrong, not normal etc..

So huuuuuge apologies for the language in my posts; I obviously don't mean to offend if I have.

Will make GP appointment now. Feeling fired up, pathetically a lot due to random strangers almost making me cry by simply saying I'm not a shit mom. Thank you.

Full educational.psychologist assessment there are various standardised assessments including vineland behaviour assessment etc and various cognitive profiling
See if school can set process in motion otherwise private assessments so you know where you are...

I've got an appointment coming up for my DS (7) as aspects of his development are causing concern. There are a few overlaps with what you describe regarding attention, but other issues are presenting differently.

I don't see it as giving him a label, more identifying what makes him tick and undetstanding how to help him manage. There will be easier and harder phases to live through. If a "label" helps people understand that there is more to him than being willfully difficult (which is what it can look like sometimes, then that is a good thing. He currently isn't showing these issues in school, but releases them at home. I'm planning on writing it all down for the GP so it's focused in my mind as it's a big package of smaller issues that aren't necessarily issues in isolation.

I have ADHD child and have done the test on myself too. What you say is exactly ADHD. By the way very clever kids have ADHD. My son takes meds for school ie not in holidays and just done GCSEs with some great results. At aged 9 we were despairing because he never seemed to listen to anything. He said the meds give him a chance to focus on class. It’s a different sort of clever. As you get used to the idea look up facts on the positives of having ADHD. When I worked in a school, I used to congratulate the children when they told me about their diagnosis.

ADD, I couldn't see the H for myself as I'm the slowest person I know physically but that can be internal.

Now it tends to be dx'd as ADHD - inattentive, hyperactive or combined.

How to ADHD on You Tube is a good place to look for info, it's easier to see examples than the dry symptom list. NICE have good, updated recently, guidelines.

Lastly, not a label, a DX and it makes life a lot easier as knowing you're different but not why is how the common things that develop as co-morbidities have space as people get rejected, mis-understood or try to fit in, which is tiring.

Ok, got appointmenta with GP and SEN teacher next week, so hopefully that will get the ball rolling as I realise I am so tired and need extra help. Just sitting in the doctors' surgery waiting for the reception queue to go down this morning, i was stressed with her leaning all over me and pawing at me. I'm such a grumpy mare!

@Brandnewstart how did you get the dyspraxia diagnosis? The symptoms seem to so similar to ADD. Was it more the physical uncoordination?

She sounds so lovely!

Sorry for late reply, I have a newborn keeping me busy! I always had my suspicions as he couldn’t hop when he was three which is a development milestone. He could only pedal backwards on a trike and he was very clumsy. However, my ex made me feel guilty about having concerns so I didn’t pursue it.
We moved to a new area when he was 6 and the teacher picked up on it. His hand to eye coordination (was) is awful and he started to fall behind on things like tying his shoe laces (he still can’t really).
He had the dyspraxia diagnosis with the ADHD diagnosis about 2 years later as his concentration was very poor despite interventions around the dyspraxia.

ADHD often comes with something else eg dyspraxia. I understand the hanging off/over until you realse that emotionally they are 4 years behind in their development. We found out about the ADHD after teacher suggested all the fiddling about on his desk might be dyspraxia.