Mumsnet jury - traffic contravention - pictures included

[WunchtimeIsOver]

I have been caught driving in a bus lane and have no 'legal ground to make a representation' i.e. it was me and I did drive in the bus lane.

The notice does say, however, 'we will consider exercising our discretion and may cancel the penalty charge notice if there are suitable mitigating circumstances.'

The website then says that 'satnav directions' and 'not understanding the signs' or being a 'visitor' are rarely reason enough for cancelling the charge.

Where I drive regularly, bus lanes run for long stretches, are painted red and always have good sight lines as you come up to them. Oh and I have never driven in a bus lane before now.

The only other mitigating reason I have is thinking it's a poorly constructed / sign-posted junction. I've included pictures from google maps and the irony that the google vehicle snapped someone doing the same thing I did is not lost on me.

I needed to make a left turn (as shown in view 1, view 2 shows the set up from the other end of the junction).

I don't know, I am an experienced driver and my initial reaction on getting the notice is that they've almost designed this junction to be able to issue regular PCNs (at round £11 per metre if you pay within 14 days or £22 per metre if not). I have never come across a junction where to turn left you take a second lane, but perhaps they are more common than I realise?

If this is an unusual junction however, and bearing in mind the correct lane is extremely narrow, particularly relative to the lanes to either side, then I think signs / writing on the road (beyond the arrow) should positively say where other vehicles should go, not just where they shouldn't.

But AIBU to think this and what mitigating circumstances could there ever be that would be 'suitable' (i.e. is it worth me even trying, or should I just 'suck it up'?

Ah! I can see why you did it but it's clearly marked Buses only so not sure what argument you can put up. Maybe there is no harm in saying what you said here?

Are there any other signs in advance of the junction other than the blue circular one actually at the junction?

I must admit I've never seen a bus lane like that, and the access for 'normal' traffic is very narrow.

That lane is fucking batshit, it is outrageous that they’ve issued you a notice for what’s about 10 metres of bus lane

No particular advice for you but that’s crazy!

Has that lane been created purely for the purposes of generating revenue? What a bizarre layout.

Just suck it up though. You will lose an appeal and probably end up paying more.

It's not that clearly marked and is a crazy set up. I would appeal.

Is it this one OP?

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bus_lane_camera_on_cox_lane_oakc

If it is they've made over £2million in a bit over 2 years

V similar happened to me. So annoying. I just paid it tho as it was half price if you paid quickly.

Hang on - they charge by the metre??

And how does that bus lane benefit the bus (isn't that the point of bus lanes?), as they'd have to give way to other left turning traffic?

Some of the bus lane markings are very difficult to work out especially in areas you're not used to and with traffic around. I doubt you've got a reasonable mitigating argument though unfortunately. Unless there's some regulation about being painted red or something that they've contravened. However I expect they've been savvy and this is a nice little earner for them

Is that a bus stop sign in there?

penaltychargenotice.co.uk/bus-lanes/signs-and-lines-bus-lane/

This site says the sign must be clearly visible 30 metres before bus lane and also bus lanes must stop 10 metres before a minor left turn

Could be worth a google

Give it a shot, you have nothing to lose.

Signs for the junction are the small blue circular ones and the writing in the lane, which of course you can't see in advance if there's traffic in front of you.

Yes it is the junction that's made over two million in a bit over two years - which does rather imply that I'm not the only one...

I don't think there's a bus stop sign and no, it doesn't seem to benefit buses in anyway.

No it's not priced per metre, but the charge is £130 or £65 if paid within 14 days and the 'lane' is so damn short that this is what it works out at. Of course if I worked it out as per second of offending time that would be ... £6.50 or £13 per second of offending.

Of course I know that crime and punishment doesn't work quite like that, but honestly I am fairly sure I didn't 'offend' anyone or cause any bother to car drivers, pedestrians or buses with this mistake.

Thanks cutting I will check that out.

That's not a bus 'lane', its a tiny triangle of tarmac! No wonder they charge by the inch (or whatever it is).

You can see the appeals that people have made by searching here.

It's a scam. Bizarre road layout, and it's not like you get any benefit from going through the bus lane section there. Unfortunately very few appeals seem to be accepted at tribunal. Your main hope is in appealing to the council, but from what I can see they are shits who are doing it deliberately to make money.

I wonder if you could find out under freedom of information if anyone else has appealed on the grounds of it not being visable or not being well signed or it simply being a stupid place for a bus lane. If they have managed it, you can too.

They’ve done it in order to generate income for themselves. Motorists are an easy target.

Maybe post on Pepipoo forums for advice about how to structure your appeal and your chances of success?

If there were buses or big vehicles in front of you, would you have still been able to see all the appropriate signs?

That bus lane actually looks a bit dangerous to me. And definitely confusing. I can see how if there was a bus in front of you in the lane you wouldn't even realise it was a bus lane because the writing would be covered up. This kind of revenue raising really irritates me but what can you do. Them's the rules. Pay the fine and complain about the lane to the local MP.

Looking through the appeals, they did allow one when a car was following another vehicle and so they said the sign wasn't visible.

I can see no real reason to have that junction like that. It's ridiculous and obviously designed to foul up drivers.

Thank you for all your posts - thankfully no one has said IAB outrightly U in thinking this is poorly designed with the aim of making money.

I have been looking at the website cutting recommended and am thinking about appealing - I think there there is at least one sound reason to do so.

I will follow up Gruffalo's advice and post on Pepipoo to get a view there.

If I go ahead and appeal, I will update with the outcome, although that might take a while.