To think medicine at university is unlikely with these GCSE results?

[Beaubeagle]

My DS has just entered 6th form to study A levels in two sciences and English. He is wanting to study medicine and hasn’t got a back up plan, but I’m worried he wouldn’t have a chance because of his GCSE results. He got 1 x 9, 1 x A*, 2 x 8, 2 x7 and 4x 6. Unfortunately all his sciences were 6’s, although we are looking at having them re-marked (handwriting issues). I’m really worried he won’t stand a chance applying to medical school, even if he does get AAA in A levels. I don’t want to upset him by saying this to him but I need him to be realistic. Aibu in this? I really don’t know what to say to him.

I think GCSEs are important in med school applications as a an indication of work ethic/ bandwidth.Anyone with a reasonable intelligence should be able to get A* with a good work ethic and oranised approach.In medicine it is more important to be competent over a wide range of skills rather than outstanding in one area, and also to score highly on aptitude testing ..In fact many medschool offers are only AAA because by then candidates have passed the real hurdles

He might end up changing his A-levels I feel.

I got very good science GCSEs. I did a double science award but I got AA. I guess that'd be the equivalent of an 8 or two.

I did Biology AS Level. I failed. It was the biggest jump I ever experienced in my education.
So much knowledge to remember at a much higher level of understanding. I couldn't cope with the jump.

Not a chance.

Flip the sort of comment you made really annoy someone me Anyone with a reasonable intelligence should be able to get A with a good work ethic and oranised approach. This is total, total rubbish. I have been a teacher for 30 years and I know many more than reasonably intelligent, hardworking, organised students who don’t get A across the board. If what you are saying were true, we would have a much higher percentage of A* grades! It’s even more wrong with the new GCSEs as they are norm referenced - only a certain percentage of candidates can get each grade however good the cohort is.
OP - the results are good and will meet some Universities’ entry requirements. The jump to A level is huge,though, and I wouldn’t recommend a degree requiring A/A* A levels in science to anyone who got 6s at GCSE.

*annoys me, not annoy someone me!

Plink an old A is a 7 not an 8. But you are right about the jump!

Even students who have fulfilled the Entrance Requirements (A Levels, Highers, Advanced Highers etc) and hold a fistful of Grade A results at Band 1, may not be interviewed if they fail the UK Clinical Aptitude Test. (UKCAT).

Increasingly, medical schools are using it as a way of differentiating between applicants in medicine and dentistry.

Which Sciences is he taking at A level
It certainly used to be the case that almost all universities specified Chemistry as one
Is this still the case?

ARU has a medical school too.

Its utter BS that if someone gets a B grade in GCSE Science, they can’t get higher in A level.
I got a B in GCSE Chemistry. Didn’t do it for A Level as was planning to go into Teaching. Had an epiphany just before my exams so passed my A levels, took a gap year and did A level Chem compressed in 1 year at college whilst working, got one of the highest As in the country and off I went to med school.

I also have Biology, History and English A levels Ethylred so you can naff off with Your nasty comment up there.

OP I wouldn’t worry too much, there are med schools out there who would accept those results. Have an honest chat with him about what he needs to do over the next 2 years, maybe get some extra help for him or if the school isn’t being too helpful maybe consider him moving to another school or college?

If he doesn’t get through in the traditional sense, he can apply to post-graduate medicine after doing a related degree.

If medicine is something he is truly passionate about, he will work hard enough to get there.

Given for the past 2 years some Medical schools are offering places through Clearing, it may be okay.

Good luck to your Son OP.

Actually I think if you only get a B at GCSE then it will be EXCEPTIONALLY difficult to get an A at A level. Even with tutoring etc, you need to have a firm grasp on what are very difficult concepts. I would consider nursing to be honest.

Surely it all depends really. A B at GCSE if he worked really really hard for it doesn’t bode well at A-level, unlike a naturally bright pupil who didn’t put work in and came out with a B and kicked themselves up the backside for A-levels.

But then the waters are muddied with the recent GCSE changes, I think. They do seem more demanding.

Have you had a look at Dundee? It offers a 1 year Gateway to Medicine course with A level entry requirements BBC, and that can lead on to the full medical degree. Feedback from friends children at Dundee is that it’s a pretty practical degree with lots of clinical stuff from the outset.

www.dundee.ac.uk/study/ug/gateway-to-medicine/

He shouldn't rule it out. I know plenty of doctors who have non traditional backgrounds and some with utterly abysmal GCSE and A level records who took a different route and ended up with distinctions and prizes throughout medical school. I am not saying your DS's results are abysmal, but no matter what there is often a way forward if it is what he is determined to do.

I think science A levels would be best for immediate entry to medicine, but only if he can get top grades and maybe be willing to take some time out to do additional experience for his application in a gap year or if he'd be willing to apply to a course such as biomedical science and then if he gets in to really knuckle down and apply to transfer (possible in some medical schools) direct to year 3 of medicine after completing the biomedical science course.

Alternatively do the A levels he'll enjoy and get the best grades in and then work a way around it - grad entry medicine, or a 6 year course with a premed year for those without science backgrounds, or even access to medicine if he's set on it. Having strong A levels will be very helpful particularly for 6 year and for grad entry.

I don't think anyone is not cut out for medicine if they are committed and the right type of person - grades don't reflect a thing about being a doctor- often the best clinically are the ones who struggled at times with academics.

If he is passionate about Medicine, I would honestly let him try. My thoughts would be at least you and he can say that he gave it his best shot. See how he does with his A-levels. If he feels drawn & dedicated he will perservere but it would be sad if he was discouraged at this point and in 30 years time wondered if he could have made it work.

I speak with some experience (qualified many years ago). Medical schools will not pass doctors who are unfit to practise. Students obviously do need a high level of understanding and a good memory for facts & paying attention to detail but empathy & dedication are important too. It is a hard slog. As others have said there are many routes in to Medicine. In my year there were at least 6 graduates. They were looked at favourably because they were mature and showed perserverance. Hope it works out.

In summary, don't give up but focus on what he'd enjoy doing for now and will do best in, while trying to keep options open. A B is not going to end his application anywhere and it's certainly possible to pull it up at A level with work/focus/application, but if there are other subjects he'd prefer then he should do those and there will be a way back around to medicine even if it takes a while longer.

For example, St George's in London has a direct transfer to year 3 of medicine from biomedical science if they reach certain grades within the first 2 or 1.5 years and perform well at application/interview. These students frequently outperform traditional (i.e. 5 or 6 years, straight from school clutching As/A*s) medical students in clinical years, as do the non traditional graduate entry students.

And a cousin of mine did Biochemistry first (I think to PhD level) and then medicine, and is now an oncologist who splits her time between treating patients and research.

Oh and BTW my headteacher wanted me to do French at Alevel &uni because I was good at it and got higher in that than Biology and Physics but I had wanted to study Medicine from age 12!

Biomedical degree. Then could do graduate medicine

A friend's son wanted to study Medicine but didn't quite get the grades and studied to be a pharmacist instead. Now he's working as a pharmacist in a cancer specialist hospital and absolutely loving it. He has regular hours, paid overtime and can study to get further qualifications and therefore promotion. Would your son consider something like that instead?

FWIW I used to mark A level papers. If the handwriting was poor and we couldn't read the answer, we would always pass it on to our team leader to read. If he/she couldn't read it, then it would go to the chief examiner for a final decision. They would look at the original (the ones I marked were on-screen.) They don't just ignore answers.

If handwriting was a problem in his GCSEs, have the marking reviewed (for about £300 for all papers), but he is still unlikely to go beyond 7.

If he wants to pursue medicine, apply after A-levels, ie during a gap year.

Since he got 6s in all 3 Sciences, you can’t put it down to a bad day.

His A level choices are fine - my niece is UVI, doing the same A levels and is applying to Oxford as well as others. Her GCSEs were A* and 9s across the board, however.

It's the low grades in his sciences that would concern me. If he's set on it, however, ensure that he starts a massive programme of work experience (my niece has many hours in a care home specialising is dementia, as well as several weeks at a GPs' surgery, shadowing several specialists, working with a physio, etc etc).

I have to say again that you're right to be concerned about the GCSE grades because - as others have said - it's so flippin' competitive.

From what I understand there has been a problem with Triple Science. My daughter has just started Year 10 and is one of the top in her year in Science and all the top set were told that basically if they do triple science they will get lower grades than just doing 2 Sciences. So it might be that there is a nationwide trend that students who took Triple have got lower grades than their true ability and that the Universities will be aware of this when looking at applications.

It's not completely out of the question, he will just have to be careful where he applies. I do think he needs to be prepared for no offers though, but he should definitely try!

I looked at Cardiff and they want 9 gcse's grade 6 or above. Check the course requirements, I did dentistry so not quite medicine but how it worked with GCSEs is it was a threshold, once you meet the threshold then they will move onto the next criteria - if you don't meet it they won't look at your application. They often set it based on the applicants so say get rid of the bottom 30%of GCSE results so it can be variable. If he meets the threshold then it won't matter if he had all 9s or all 6s providing he meets the threshold.

The question is really whether he can get As at A level, with 6s at GCSE this is unlikely but not impossible. It really depends what happened, was it a handwriting issue, a not putting in the effort issue or that he genuinely wasn't capable of better. I would get the papers back so you can look at them and the marking. The problem is, is that even if he can get As at A level he's still got 5 years of pretty heavy science based exams to get through, which will be harder than a levels and he might struggle.

A levels wise 2 sciences is absolutely fine, often a separate essay subject is viewed favourably. Better do 2 sciences and an a level he can get a good grade in than 3 sciences and get aac or something.

I would think there was no point doing a gap year and then applying. Realistically he might get no offers (lots of people do irrelevant of GCSEs) and be looking at a gap year anyway and applying with results, or he might get no offers after a gap year and then have to have 2 gap years. There's no point waiting a year.

I would be focusing now on getting excellent extra curricular stuff. Lots of work experience, volunteering etc, teamwork stuff anything he can get. Have you looked at st John ambulance?

The question is really whether he can get As at A level, with 6s at GCSE

No it really isn't.The hard thing is getting an offer not getting 3 As