to spray the neighbours dog?

[AmIAWeed]

So...long long ongoing issues with neighbours.
I have 2 dogs, they have a dog.
Their garden backs onto ours on the side and the rear. Well their garden to the side, their field to the rear.
I have fenced their boundary because they wouldn't and as a dog owner it's my responsibility to keep my dog in...I have also replaced the chain link at the bottom of our garden, in front is a hedge so no point having a wooden fence there - additionally the field floods regularly so it would rot.

Their dog is NOT socialised, any time I am in the garden it runs at the wooden fence and the chain link/hedge, literally pacing up and down barking. The owners do not call it in.
If I let my dogs out and it appears I bring mine in because it barks, mine bark back and frankly the other neighbours don't deserve to hear dogs barking. One of my dogs runs away, the other stands wagging his tail and barking, hes desperate to play and has never before picked up a dogs warning signs to leave it alone.
Today mine we're out, theirs was let out and the barking started, by the time I got out the bark there was full on snarling, growling - one of my dogs and theirs going for it. I grabbed my dog and bought him in, since he's been curled up on my lap terrified.

The owners have no intention of bringing the dog in or stopping the behaviour and im fed up of calling mine in everytime their dog is out, which can be for hours at a time.

So my AIBU
I want to have a water gun so every time their dog comes to the fence and starts barking I can spray it? I'll spray mine as well if hes out to deter them, but have every intention of spraying both dogs, theirs and mine until the damn thing learns not to run and bark at dogs/people. If their dog is there barking at me through the fence and my boy is inside i'll still spray the damn thing.
Is there an alternative?

I cant train the owners - the owners do NOT want to know, They are not approachable people.
Kidssendingmenuts We had no issues with fencing etc until these people moved in. Dogs on either side meant we had to put fencing up as the hedge was not adequate, they refused to do anything so I've paid over £2k to fence their boundary alone, although this is on my land. I then also replaced our old chain link as it had a few holes in. Fencing the rear is not an option although I could probably get some wicker screening and put this against the chain link.

Just something cheap that you can get at homebase. Worth a shot if they can't see each other. X

Dastardly that is not how dogs minds work. Aversion training techniques as you have used make your dog fearful as you have demonstrated with your dog's fear of the spray can. It's very outdated and psychologically damaging to a dog.

I can't believe people still think scaring their pets into submission is acceptable.

All spraying them/near them is doing is teaching them to be scared of whatever it is they're barking at. So if they bark at strangers and you spray them with water or shake a tin can at them, they learn that strangers = that scary noise I don't like which means strangers = bad/scary.

As for people saying it works - of course it does, you're frightening them into behaving correctly!

There's even been a few times where she's just seen me reach for the dreaded red can and she shuts up/stops humping/jumping up etc

Yes, she stops because the noise scares her! You've just frightened her into behaving!

I'm sure a little spray will be fine and should do the trick. It's only a bit of water. It's all getting a bit special snowflake and ridiculous! It's a dog for heavens sake

Adaline it's clear you don't approve but I don't think I saw your proposed solution?
My dogs need to be able to use my garden. I can't stop my neighbors having a dog in their garden.
So what's the answer?

I certainly don't approve, I think it's cruel to spray a dog to get it to behave.

It's only a bit of water.

That's really not the point. Modern dog training is about positive reinforcement, not dominating your dog by scaring it into behaving how you want it to. The reason dogs respond to spray cans/tins with stones/water pistols is because you're punishing your dog and it scares them.

I've seen rescue dogs visibly cower when you get a spray bottle out - presumably because that's how they've been "trained" in the past. Same with tin cans and water pistols. Dog training shouldn't be about punishing your dog, it's about encouraging correct behaviour with positive reinforcement - treats, toys, fuss - use whatever your dog responds to.

If your dog is barking at another dog through the fence, you need to block her vision. You can cable tie plastic or wood panels to the fence to prevent them seeing each other, for example. Letting them out when they can see each other, and you know they're going to bark at each other, is setting both dogs up to fail. They're practising normal behaviour and the response (spraying them) is punishing them for that. Either stop the behaviour from occurring in the first place, or get your dog to do something that's incompatible with barking. Bring her inside, play fetch or a game with her, do training so she's occupied and too busy to respond.

I have a barky dog and I appreciate it's really frustrating but scaring the dog into submission isn't really the answer. It might stop the behaviour temporarily but it can cause even more problems further down the line (aggression, for example, and fear-aggression) which is definitely not something you want to deal with in an adult dog.

Why the fuck is the onus being put on OP to train the NDNs aggressive dog?

I’ve heard it all now.

OP do what you need to do to keep your dogs safe.

Why the fuck is the onus being put on OP to train the NDNs aggressive dog?

Who said anything about training the neighbours dog? Her dog is barking back, which is all she needs to worry about - training her dog not to react to the barking.

That doesn’t solve the issue of her dogs being barked at and being intimidated.

We live next door to aggressive dogs, our dog doesn’t respond (she’s not a barky dog) but she is fucking terrified.

The onus seems to be on the OP to train the aggressive humans. Without being able to come into contact with them

Aye that too.

Unfortunately it's not OP's job (or place) to train/deter the neighbours' dog. If the barking is a nuisance she can go via the council and put in a complaint about the noise.

If the barking is affecting her dog, then she can put a fence up, or cable tie panelling to her current set-up so the dogs can't see each other, which should hopefully calm the barking a bit. It sounds like the neighbours' dog barks because it can see into OP's garden and either wants attention or is barking at the noise/sight of other people/dogs.

OP can't force the dog to behave, nor can she force her neighbours' to train their dog (or bring it inside).

Agree with adaline, though also agree this is a ballache of a situation for you.

I really really wouldn't use aversive methods on next door's dog - although it's ruining your time in your own garden, it's not up to you to train their dog. Unfortunately this kind of 'fence policing' behaviour can become obsessive so it won't be just as simple as shaking a can of stones or whatever. The point of aversive training (which I do not agree with in any form) is that it has to be aversive enough to work ONCE. For those of you still reaching for the can of air spray, you have not successfully trained your dog out of the undesirable behaviour. You are simply scaring them into not displaying it which is not the same. Plus, you have to 'threaten' them by reaching for the can.

If you are not on terms with the NDN to encourage them to positively train their own dog, you will need to train yours to become desensitised to the barking and to not react while in the garden.

Back to the water pistols - say you did go down this route and it worked, which it might for a very short period of time, what do you do when it stops working? What's the next step up from water pistol? It's more likely using this method will create a weird negative association with your own dog... dogs are funny things. Going in the garden with mum = she might spray me. Or next door neighbour's dog barks = I might get sprayed. Not worth the risk IMO.

Hmmm, this is hard. I’m all for positive reinforcement training, but if I thought a spray would work, in this situation Id use it. BUT, there is a big risk that the dog will go even more berserk each time he sees you. Same with a pet corrector hissing noise. What Id suggest, albeit a pain in the proverbials is training a positive interrupter. Google a training video - basically, go out with your dogs. When dog approaches the fence, barking, you can use a distinctive cue - clicker, a chirping sound or whistle (you can get a cheap clicker from Amazon) and chuck a treat - a good one. Something like roast chicken (don’t use anything with grain in case of allergy). Keep chucking each time you click. If your dog barks, do same. Get them to associate click with treat. Then only click when they stop barking and look at you for treat. It could take a while, and a lot of roast chicken, but the dog will stop barking at you, due to association with treats when he’s quiet.

Loving all this "how to train your neighbours dog, through a fence, investing in grain- free treats, roast chicken, clickers, praise, singing to it" bollox.
You have my approval to nuke the little shit with the Pet Corrector snake - and if it developes a severe phobia of barking and growling at your dogs through the fence, then that is a damn shame.
PS - I train dogs for a living.

Well true to AIBU there is a divide in opinion!
Today I have put wicker up to screen the largest gap in the fence.
As stated I have spent well over £2k putting a fence up on their boundary line. I am not paying more to errect a fence, which would also result in the removal of an established hedge in an area that floods due to these people filling in ditches.
I am garden proud and will not be putting tarp up to block vision.
Final point, it does run up and down the 2 metre high wooden fence so this isn't just a visual thing.

Dog was not out today, usually it's during the week it creates as it's locked out the house with the builders in.
I will try distracting and rewarding mine but i will use a spray because I won't feed another person's dogs treats

Wicker screen - excuse the weeds their next doors ;)

PS - I train dogs for a living.

I'm certainly bloody glad my trainer doesn't recommend spraying random dogs to get them to behave! Why on earth would you risk winding a strange, potentially aggressive dog up?

OP I think you're taking a huge risk by saying you're going to spray some random dog. It's not your dog to discipline! What if it turns aggressive?

Well it might seem “Bollux” to feed a neighbours dogs treats, but in my experience it’s the quickest way to stop a dog barking at you. Has worked a treat for me. No, it’s not instant, but you don’t want to put up a fence understandably. 2 or 3 sessions and I’d say the dog won’t be barking at you. You can get little packets of roast chicken on offer at most supermarkets. Thank you sometimesitsmyownfault.

I'd spray them. If the neighbours have a problem with that, at least it opened a dialogue:))

I would probably not risk spraying someone else's dog, for most of the reasons listed above (but mainly cos I don't think it would work, at all). As well as because of the risk that it may make relations with the neighbours even worse. Crap situation, and if preventing the dogs from seeing each other won't work, I don't think there is much of a solution...other than moving house.

If I thought I could get away with it I would hose next doors bastard dog everytime. I have an outside tap. The kids too when up high overlooking my fence staring into my garden.

Mine and the neighbors dog can’t see each other. It’s the hearing that sets them off next doors it’s out for hours whining and crying. When mine go out it barks and jumps at the fence, mine react to the hostility.