To wonder where introspection ends and autism begins?

[PensivePension]

So, please hear me out before piling on!

I have a DS with autism. I do know a lot about it (well the autistic traits he has). He has good language, some rigid thinking, but can come across as NT to those that aren't looking for it.

But this is thread is about me.

I'm asking because I hear a lot about women (especially) getting diagnoses of autism in their 40s. Now, you have to assume that the difficulties the autism creates weren't so obvious or debilitating as theye people got to their 40s, got jobs, mortgages, had families etc. Not without a lot of masking, and internalised distress I'm sure, but to people looking in, any eccentricities or difficulties were not screamingly obvious.

Which brings it to me. I need more 'down time' than anyone else I know. I can do small talk, enjoy it sometimes, eye contact etc, in limited doses. I hate parties, being around lots of people, attention on me. I find some places way too 'much' though I can cope with them. When I get home after seeing friends, even if it is a low-key evening, I need a good 2 hours to decompress before I can sleep. I am happy spending whole days not talking to anyone. If I see people unexpectedly, even friends, my instinct is to literally hide.

I consider myself to be a friendly introvert, who just needs lots of space. However I am beginning to understand how 'extreme' my introversion is, and the toll on me if I do not get time away from people - including my family.

Where is the line between finding being around other people hard to cope with on a daily basis, and the social interaction aspects of autism?

Watching with interest as your description mirrors my life. I also often make huge faux pas with understanding what people are eluding too sometimes. Sarcasm often escapes me.

I have a lot of this, but on balance I'm not interested in pursuing a label for its own sake. However all of my children have turned out a lot more NT than me and I can certainly see a difference between how they are and how I was at that age. Had my children been autistic I would have had a lot more interest in investigating that side of myself.

You have described me as well and I'm watching with interest. Both dh and I are extremely introverted but I've often thought about how extreme we are or is it something more. We could honestly go a month or two without meeting up with people.

Thanks for your soldarity. Perhaps people like us cluster on forums, where we can leave when we need to and it isn't rude

I have to add, I am good with language, I get sarcasm and have oodles of empathy ( too much sometimes - to the extent I avoid most films as I hate being upset). I do though often forget to ask how people are. Once we are talking about them, I'm all ears and supportive, but quite often I forget, for example, that someone went to a funeral when I see them the next day, even though they have told me. Erratic, as well as a little eccentric

I'm the same I overthink things I overplan I think about worst case scenarios frequently but again like you I'm in my 40s and feel I have developed coping mechanisms. Google Sarah Hendrickx if you haven't already she has some great talks on being female and autistic and was diagnosed in her late 30s early 40s- I guess the thing is are you able to function daily would a diagnosis benefit you?

I could have written that. The biggest thing for me is sensory issues - if I'm tired or out of sync in anyway I can't deal with noise in my environment. Too much noise feels physically painful.

I identify A LOT with what you wrote, OP. A LOT. I also have a few sensory issues that scream ASD. I am almost sure i'd be diagnosed if i lived in the UK, however in my country ASD diagnosis is done somewhat diferently (although that is changing and not for the better IMO).

I'm asking because I hear a lot about women (especially) getting diagnoses of autism in their 40s. Now, you have to assume that the difficulties the autism creates weren't so obvious or debilitating as theye people got to their 40s, got jobs, mortgages, had families etc. Not without a lot of masking, and internalised distress I'm sure, but to people looking in, any eccentricities or difficulties were not screamingly obvious.

Diagnosis of female autism especially in adults has up until recently not been a common thing because there was a sadly held misconception that it presented the same was as it does in boys/men, so there was neither the resources nor the understanding/knowledge in the medical world to diagnose earlier then these woman in their forties that you are hearing about. (and to an extent there is still a great amount of ignorance and misdiagnosis in the medical world regarding females with autism)

Woman with autism often learn to "mask" their symptoms extremely well and thats another reason why diagnosis was often missed or not even thought of as a possibility, however as with anything as you get older, it becomes harder and harder to do even subconsciously as most women arent even aware they are "masking" so hence another reason that as they get older they seek out a diagnosis.
And whilst it might not look like its been debiliating to someone looking from the outside, trust me it is.

Why not come down the mumsnetter with special needs part of the forum and read some of the posts in there about adult woman who are in the process of or have recieved an autism diagnosis.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnetters_with_sn

Heres a video about women with autism from world expert Tony Attwood (Autism Spectrum Disorder ASD is still called Aspergers in some areas) Takes a few minutes to get into it.

Have you taken the AQ test? It can be an indicator. Also have a look at Tanya Marshall's website. She has a great list of traits in females, obviously they don't all apply.

You have described me in a lot of ways. I was diagnosed last year. I have found it liberating to finally understand myself.

a label for its own sake

An autism diagnosis is a medical diagnosis, done by professionals. Like any other diagnoses of medical conditions.

It's very common nowadays to have a child diagnosed and then think - wait a minute - and see autistic traits in one or both parents, because in the parents' generation, only a few very obvious for want of a better term textbook autistic children were diagnosed and most if not all would have been boys.

It depends how much the traits affect your life as to whether a diagnosis is worth pursuing or not.
Some adults do it simply for the validation, they've felt different all their lives and a diagnosis gives them the knowledge that they are different, not wrong, not inferior, not lesser than their colleagues and friends. It gives them a sense of self.

Some adults find that the diagnosis can bring reasonable adjustments from their employer which help them to do their job without distractions, therefore they can be less frazzled at the end of a working day.

Women present differently, it's thanks to the pioneering work of Lorna Wing and Judith Gould to identify autism in women and girls that so many women are being diagnosed nowadays.

Lack of eye contact and lack of empathy are not indicators of autism in either males or females, that's an old myth that has survived well past its sell-by date, alongside the assumption that many more boys than girls have autism and the idea of a linear spectrum.

Here's a better look at the spectrum.
the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

I'm starting to wonder if nearly everyone has something.

I m looking at people I know with fresh eyes as well as myself.

I agree More. It's about recognising your strengths and accepting where you're not as strong, like many things in life. If a diagnosis helps you do that, great, but it's not the only way to get that peace?

Gawd, just realised I meant to say introversion, not introspection! That kind of mistake will stay with me for days!

I'm not sure about seeking a diagnosis for myself, bit I am interested about where the line might fall. I have tried to read the comic strip thing previously, but I find comics too confusing. I like my information presented in a linear fashion

BlankTimes thank you for that link, I will take a look.

I'd welcome other people's opinions on whether this kind of extreme end of introversion could be seen as a trait of autism

I could also have written this. I am not too bad one on one but the more people around the worse I am. I never know when to speak so stay quiet for too long or say something inappropriate or talk over people. It's so draining trying not to make myself look like a twat

Also lots of empathy but find it hard to demonstrate this

I also feel very uneasy if I don't have a plan - i can't do spontaneity at all.

Have you tried the online questionnaires. I am always borderline.

Random question but how do you find alcohol affects you? I actually find it helps me. Which means maybe I am just socially awkward.

I'm awaiting assessment currently. Many people who know me would likely scoff at that but mainly because i mask well. I know what society expects and have learned to produce that. It's meant I hated school, struggled to fit in, had endless jobs that rarely last past 12 months and have never had a great sense of being able to be myself. However as I'm getting older im.noticing its more difficult to mask effectively or on many occasions I simply dont want to. Therefore I have withdrawn from many of my social circles as they were exhausting, I don't do social niceties as often as I used to and am trying to embrace being happy in my quirks. A silly example is I only feel comfortable walking on the right of other people...it's not just a preference, walking on the left makes me anxious and I can't focus on anything. For years ive suppressed it as others may find it ridiculous but now i just swap and if needs be explain why.

I have 4 children with autism and perhaps encouraging them to be themselves has rubbed off on me

I've just had a look on the tanya marshall website at common traits - apparently booze is a common one. Also lots of other things like clumsiness, inability to hide true feelings, strong sense of justice, poor use of lamguage etc etc all apply to me (used to ace every exam other than English). Very interesting. Though there are so many on there that a large number are bound to apply.

I also talk over people, talk far too much, convince myself next time I'll let the other person talk then just talk over them again I find lists therapeutic, I need a plan and to be several steps ahead of myself otherwise i become stressed.
I stim heavily at night and when anxious (foot tapping) and can exhaust myself having to tap to a certain number.

I have few people I can interact with regularly In a genuine way especially now my social facade is slipping. I've been called blunt often and know i can come across arrogant when actually im not in just sure of myself

Hi - I diagnose autism in adults and children . You are right to say that ‘everyone has something.’ It’s the combination of symptoms and the number/severity of them - ie, what effect they have.

When I assess for autism, I’m looking for:

• issues in childhood, possibly manifesting in lack of pretend play, or problems in interaction with others. (Parents of adults don’t always remember exactly)

• differences in interaction such as reduced range of facial expression and different types of gesture. It’s hard to self-report this, it needs to be observed. Also issues with staying on topic, reference, register, choice of topic, shared interest and enjoyment

Differences in communication - choice of words, problems with expressing yourself, understanding of humour/non-literal language

Pattern of activity/interests - including need for routine, repetitive themes, narrow interests, need for perfection, sense of justice, black and white thinking

Sensory issues - seven areas including proprioceltion and vestibular

When we do an ados assessment for example, some people may have a score that’s just below the diagnostic threshold, which means we can see traits, but not enough of them, and not across lots of different areas

Ah yes I get blunt and brutal! Only if someone asks me a question though like do you think I look fat. Unless asked directly I would just STFU in a conversation about weight as I'd know I'd say the wrong thing

Also whenever I do any kind of personality test at work, whatever measure I always seem to be at the edge of graphs of whatever I'm being tested for ie fairly extreme in my way of thinking. For example I can't do role play. I just can't.

Humour is a tricky one. My husband jokes that I " never learned to laugh" because i rarely laugh or find things funny that others would.
I never have done pretend play and my husband tends to oversee that with the kids (although 3 also cant do it!) I wpuld just do stilted repeats of situations with an attempt at a funny voice.

I do.often wonder tho if i can have autism if i am self aware of.my difficulties/ differences

I remember a paedatrician assessing my son and commenting on how he just bashed figures together rather than making them interact...she seemed to be suggest it wasn't appropriate imaginative play ...all I was thinking was thats all I could manage too