Variable speed limits - AIBU?

[WhatYouGonnaDoKatie]

AIBU to be confused?

I’ve just had a speeding ticket arrive in the post from a variable speed limit camera on the M1 in Derbyshire. It says I was caught doing 60mph when the limit was 50mph - but there’s no proof anywhere in the letter that the gantry showed 50, and obviously I can’t check it as it’s not a fixed limit!

I live in the north east and don’t drive on the M1 very often so know which journey it was and where it was. The motorway wasn’t congested (it was around 10 in the morning so outside busy times) and I remember wondering why the limit was 60, but as my speed shows I was obviously sticking to that. I really can’t see why the limit would have changed to 50, and don’t remember seeing the signs change so was really shocked to receive the letter.

I’ll just suck it up and take the 3 points as not sure what else I can do, but I do feel a bit cheated. It doesn’t mention anything in the letter about proof that that is what the signs said at that time... Surely this means that the variable limit can just be set at 50 on an uncongested motorway just to catch people out!

Surely this means that the variable limit can just be set at 50 on an uncongested motorway just to catch people out! - I highly doubt they do that, and it won't 'catch people out' as there would be large signs saying 50.

Is there the option to do a speed awareness test instead? Stops you getting the points.

When a gantry changes, there is a time delay (e.g. 10 / 15 seconds) before the cameras enforce the new lower limit.

All variable speed gantries have a pole with a couple of small cameras on them just before the gantry - these photograph the gantry to show the speed limit in force at the time of the apparent transgression...

you can ask to see this photo, but the letter is usually only a prelim - e.g. a notice of intent to prosecute (NIP), it is not an actual prosecution, so the 'evidence' will only be shown in the even of an actual prosecution... so you can go to court and let them show the evidence - if you are certain that it was still showing at 60mph, then that is the best approach as they will be unable to show a photo demonstrating that it was 50mph - however, going to court opens up different options from the magistrate in terms of a penalty should you be shown to be in the wrong - that could mean more points / high fines... so be certain before taking that route...

ultimately you are not cheated as you have an option to counter the argument, however you have to do that in court. The only way of demonstrating otherwise would be if you had a dashcam, however it is always possible with those that the footage is overwritten before you receive a NIP.

additionally - check the dating on the letter - if the infraction counts as day 0 - then the registered owner must receive the NIP by day 14 (that could be a lease company if you don't own the car)...

you may find good advice on Money Saving Experts / Pepipoo

Just for info, it is 60 seconds after the speed changes that the cameras do not prosecute.

First option is to ask for the photos - if it comes to it just say you are not sure who was driving in order to complete the NIP, limit photo should be shown but you may need to be specific and ask for that as well.

Be careful of the time limits.

Thanks all, I don’t have a dash cam tho this has made me really consider getting one. I’m generally a careful driver, I do a fair amount of miles for work and have only been caught speeding once previously - unfortunately that was 2yrs 10 months ago so not eligible for another awareness course.

Is there the option to do a speed awareness test instead? Stops you getting the points.

Unfortunately I went on one 2 years 10 months ago so not eligible for another.

*I've been involved in writing the software for these systems. They don't make mistakes. When there are faults in the systems, masses of tickets are written off rather than send one erroneously and erroding trust in the system.

It's better to accept that you were at fault and take the points on the chin.*

Thanks, I think that’s what I’ll do... it’s just frustrating as I honestly don’t recall the signs changing / showing 50, and like I said the road was not busy.

First option is to ask for the photos - if it comes to it just say you are not sure who was driving in order to complete the NIP, limit photo should be shown but you may need to be specific and ask for that as well.

This is really bad advice. You can’t just say you didn’t know who was driving. You are expected to make enquiries to work out who was driving.

We get a lot of people in court who plead not guilty to failing to give the ID of the driver. Unless you can show you went to proper effort to find out but couldn’t find out for a valid reason, you would be found guilty. Penalty for that is worse than speeding at at least 6 points plus fine.

I’m the only person insured on my car, so it was definitely me, although appreciate that getting the photo might show the gantry with the limit on it seems a bit cheeky to lie to do so.

I do wish they would provide it with the letter though - e.g. the limit on this part of road was set to 60mph at 08:32 and changed to 50mph at 09:54 until 10:17 due to... etc. I found online that quite a few people have used FOI requests to get this info for variable limit cameras and can definitely understand why, particularly if they don’t give much grace for when the sign changes and the cameras kick in.

I’ll definitely be a lot more cautious on variable speed motorways from now on though... so I guess it’s done what it’s intended.

I friggin hate these variable speed limits aswell. I think they are just a game to catch people out most the time. I seem to notice they will go from 70 down to 60, then 50 and then back to 70 in the space of four gantrys for no apparent reason. I always stick in the slow lane and go 5 mph below the speed. If anyone behind wants to take over me then that's their choice.

I was caught doing 60 in a 50mph variable limit on the M1 last year.
My first time so I chose to take a Motorway Awareness (nb: not speed awareness) course.
It was incredibly informative. Gist of it is - in response to one or two PPs - the limits are not put in place to piss you off, inconvenience or delay you. They are to either a. Keep the traffic flowing in a congested area or b. Keep you safe.
Just because you can't see the cause of a speed restriction does not mean there isn't one - the limits are there to give the traffic time to slow down before confronting an obstruction or site of congestion - there is always a reason for them, even if you can't see it from where you are.
I observe them carefully now. It wasn't shocking, or sensationalist, just informative and I think more people should be able to do such courses.

It really is a new level of stupidly to hate variable speed limits; simple research would show the positive impact on motorway flow they have.

To anyone from parts of the country unfamiliar with workings of variable speed limits they are daunting especially when you are on roads you are unfamiliar with and you're also trying to work out which lane you need to be in and what junction you are approaching etc when on long hauls.