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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent moving in, ground rules and rent

22 replies

MaNeOi · 09/09/2018 18:45

I live with my husband and our four sons (9,7,5,5). Four years ago we moved into our house, and have been making changes/improvements to it ever since. Six months ago we decided to do the 'big extension' and also offered to let my Dad move into the annex we would add (and pay for). He was very happy we asked, and my husband and I had been considering it for a while - he's getting older, his house is far to big for him to manage and we all get on well.

The issue is that he wants to pay £1000 a month rent plus bills, which is unreasonable as market for what he will be in is £700, we'd also like to include the bills just to make our lives easier. We originally asked him to pay £250 which would cover the cleaner and the washing/ironing lady. He's said he wants to and doesn't mind - and I don't know if I should accept it even though I don't need or want the money.

Secondly does anyone have any suggestions of ground rules? The property will be joined to our house but will have separate entrance however we are going to put a joining door into our house (which we can both lock).

Thanks

OP posts:
QuestionableMouse · 09/09/2018 18:47

Let him pay the money as long as he can afford it easily and put the extra in a saving account?

Will he have his own kitchen? If not you're going to need rules for food/cooking/cleaning.

Littlebluebird123 · 09/09/2018 18:57

I agree with pp about taking the money and putting into savings. He will feel like he's contributing and then you have a buffer if you need a carer in the future (for example). If including bills is easier for you, just explain that and say the 1000 (or whatever you agree on) is the full monthly price.
On a side note, I believe there are tax implications if you go above a certain amount so you may want to check that.

As for ground rules, I would discuss expectations and routines.
E.g. you may want every evening just you and dh, but he might want some company as he's been alone all day so you could suggest 2/3 evenings where he's with you all as a balance.
He may want a quiet morning to read the paper, you are all in the kitchen til 8am getting ready etc so he'd have to come in afterwards.
Things like that. :)

HonestReally · 09/09/2018 19:07

Do you have siblings?
If so what do they think? It would be much simpler if you don’t then there is no need to worry about being fair to them.
What’s your Dad doing with the money from his house? Is he just putting it in savings? Has he done an inheritance tax planning? Does he want to?

I’m not sure about discussing ‘rules’. If he is the type of person to need rules then him moving in to an annex probably wasn’t the best idea.
How do you normally discuss things? I can tell my Dad if he is annoying me and him me without causing any upset.

BTW. Have you discussed or thought about what would happen if you and your husband split up? Does your Dad have any security in his flat or would he be relying on your and your husbands goodwill.
I’m not sure that’s a great position for him to be in.

Bluelady · 09/09/2018 19:12

If he pays you £1000 a month it's liable for tax, there's a limit of about £5k a year for letting a room which is what this boils down to. Maybe he could put the rest into an ISA in your name.

It's a lovely thing you're doing, OP.

MaNeOi · 09/09/2018 19:13

Thanks for the suggestions regarding ground rules- the annex will be two bedrooms upstairs with a bathroom and an open plan kitchen/ dining/ living room (in addition to a boot room/dog room - as my Dad has two pugs). So we don't actually need to share living space I just know my sons and dad would like it if they could see each other when the boys come back from school.

He currently comes round every Sunday for dinner and whenever theres a big sporting game/event on because he likes watching them with other people - in addition my oldest goes round to his ever time there is F1 on so we will continue to do this as well as another evening meal during the week and maybe on the occasion we get a takeaway to eat together.

The concern is more that he will want to be round every night for evening television, or all of his evening meals. When I mentioned the set up he basically said it wouldn't be an issue but I can imagine it developing to be an issue (if that makes sense?)

Finally, regarding the rent - part of the reason we don't want it is that I have a brother who lives in Australia and I wouldn't want to cause conflict with him regarding money as its already a touchy subject between him and I, and I also think he's resentful of the proximity I am to our Dad.

OP posts:
GrumpyOlderBloke · 09/09/2018 19:19

Let him pay.

Knowing nothing of your family circumstances - such as other siblings - this may just be his way of 'spending the children's inheritance' and acknowledging the magnificent gesture you and your husband have made. I would agree that bundling all the utilities, rates insurance etc into the contribution would make life simpler.

Ground rules are impossible to suggest without knowing the family dynamic and to some extent your father's mobility and attitude.

Depends if the annex is fully self contained with its own kitchen, patio etc and whether you expect him to cater for himself. A locked door between residences and invitations to visit might seem cold to some and expected to other families.

As a bloke I would be erecting a shed for him so he doesn't get into my garage or shed without an invitation, and no way is he borrowing my tools!

My father-in-law would spend all day manicuring my garden, washing windows, sweeping paths, cleaning gutters, painting fences then pestering my wife for errands to run or minor DIY tasks. When she ran out of inspiration he would be introducing himself to the neighbours and then asking them.

He is a deaf as a post, won't use hearing aids, won't wear his reading glasses, impatient, stubborn, won't listen to instructions, won't read manuals and was never as good at DIY as he thinks he is. So everything he does do is done quickly and badly.

He would expect all his washing & ironing done, vacuumimg, dusting and tidying, meals with the family, escorted to doctor, dentist, barber, clothes shopping etc. He is of that generation and background and mother-in-law is still around. He does make his own coffee now though and toddles off to Lidl with a shopping list - but doesn't prepare said list.

He would be a nightmare and wouldn't/couldn't notice boundaries.

I would be hiding in the garage.

I actually like him - in small doses and in his own house.

GrumpyOlderBloke · 09/09/2018 19:20

Sorry, very slow two fingered typist and you answered all my points already.

CatchingACold · 09/09/2018 19:21

Will it need a separate council tax registration.

Di11y · 09/09/2018 19:22

Could you take the extra £300 but agree with your brother it's for your dad's care if he needs it, repairs on the annexe etc. And you'll include it as part of the estate when he dies?

NewYearNewMe18 · 09/09/2018 19:23

Will you be declaring this income ?

And he's dispersing his assets to negate the burden of inheritance tax

PinkFluffyFairy · 09/09/2018 19:28

How about he pays for the annex and it's bills? So no rent.

Maelstrop · 09/09/2018 19:29

Is he selling his own house? That should be ringfenced in case he requires specialist care later in life. It sounds like you might need to,tell your dc the rules more than your dad. I’d just be firm and say max 2 nights a week, 3 if there’s a major sporting event, but send the dc to him.

KindergartenKop · 09/09/2018 19:29

If your brother is in Australia he can't really complain about your proximity! I'd be thankful someone was keeping an eye on my dad!

wurzelburga · 09/09/2018 19:32

I would take advice on the tax implications of the rental payments. You could be liable for income tax and inheritance tax on any amounts paid.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 09/09/2018 19:41

The concern is more that he will want to be round every night for evening television, or all of his evening meals. When I mentioned the set up he basically said it wouldn't be an issue but I can imagine it developing to be an issue (if that makes sense?)

Yes it makes perfect sense. I'd suggest an arrangement where you usually take his meals through to him in his home, but only you know your DF ... is he likely to complain about "how lonely it is eating alone" and, if you resist, to just appear in your own dining room? And what about your social life/visitors? Would he be happy to stay in his space or expect to be included in this too?

You've not said if you work, but I'd also think carefully about what you'll do when he starts needing more and more help. Would he accept carers coming in or expect you to do it all since you're "in situ" so to speak?

As you say there's lots to think about and I wouldn't be going ahead with this without a lot of discussion ... and that would mean proper discussion, not just a blase "it won't be a problem"

puzzledlady · 09/09/2018 19:45

Sorry - personally I would never take money from my parent if they moved in, any money would probably be out into a savings account for them and spent on stuff they needed. My inlaws did this to their mum.

Atalune · 09/09/2018 19:50

I think you should charge him “market value” and tell him yoh will. Then save it separately for annex repairs and any care needs down the line.

I would say on a Sunday- plan the week ahead, so say-
Right dinner with us on Thursday, we are busy in and out the rest of the week. Come watch the cricket on Saturday. And have a planner on the wall which you decide on and update each week. Be clear. Tell him you know he will want his independence and you need your family time too.

MaNeOi · 09/09/2018 20:38

GrumpyOlderBloke Your message really did make me laugh, reminds me of my own Grandfather!

We have already had planning permission for the annex and it won't be its own property - but our council tax will most likely change bands but this would of happened anyway because of the scale of renovation and some of the things we are doing in other parts of the property so we don't mind the increase.

He is going to rent his house out, and has been transferring his assets into mine and my brothers names for the past 5 years and will continue to do so, for inheritance tax purposes- my DH is a financial advisor and I'm an accountant, so there is currently a set up thats effective.

The reason we asked for so little (£250) is the person who cleans his house, and ironing/washing he currently pays this amount to independently however given we will be in the same property we will give keys and pay it as one payment so ultimately we weren't going to charge any rent.

My dads already been very generous in the past, and is mine and my DH's only living parent, and the only grandparent my kids have known which I think is part of the reason we are all so close.

My Dad has a pretty busy social life and will now be walking distance (or extremely short taxi depending on the time and the weather) from the village pub which has a real community, and he currently goes to, to meet his friends etc- so I know he wouldn't feel the need to be included in the same way I wouldn't expect to be invited round if he had people over.

In terms of care, me and my dad have both agreed we wouldn't want me to physically look after him (e.g getting changed), and theres money set aside currently for carers.

In terms of the question of if I work, my husband and I own a business however I work around school hours.

OP posts:
monkeysox · 09/09/2018 21:10

If it has a kitchen you will get a separate council tax bill.

MaNeOi · 10/09/2018 23:08

We have been advised by our architect and local planning office we won't need a separate council tax bill as we will be exempt.

OP posts:
Jenda · 10/09/2018 23:19

This all sounds lovely!! Do you have to put the connecting door in though? I wouldn't. It would feel like I was blocking him out if it was locked and I would also resent him being able to just walk in! I don't think it's wrong to accept the money if that's what he wants to pay but he is offering a lot! I agree putting it aside for something is a good idea even if it's for things like a Christmas fund. Although I suppose if he knows your financial situation you don't want him to feel patronised. I hope your brother doesn't cause any difficulties, it is not your fault he lives in Oz! I hope it all works really well for you all!

MaNeOi · 10/09/2018 23:38

Thanks Jenda! The connecting door is more of a long term house thing - for resale, registration of the property and obviously in the long run if my Dad needs care in the future rather than going outside and back in. Also even though we can both lock the doors they'd be able to be unlocked from both sides at any time, we are having a pool and gym put in so would like him to be able to get to them easily as would work out quite a long walk to go around the house especially when it is icy in the winter!

OP posts:
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