To think fathers should get use-it-or-lose-it paternity leave once the mother is back at work?

[HavelockVetinari]

It seems so unfair that mums get to have time off to look after their DC but dads get 2 weeks unless the mum is willing to give up some of her own leave. Why can't the government acknowledge the importance of a father in a child's life and give them their own entitlement?

Benefits:

• Improved bonding from 1:1 sole care responsibility day in, day out;
• Less discrimination against women of childbearing age in the workplace;
• Hopefully more equal split of parenting duties.

Should this be a MN campaign? I truly think the benefits to women would actually even outweigh the benefits to men (although that's clearly not the way to sell it!).

It’s not enough because if employers are looking at thirty one year old job candidates they’ll still look at the woman and have at the back of their mind “but she’ll get pregnant and we’ll have to faff around with maternity cover”. They don’t have that worry about men because the number of them who take meaningful paternity leave is tiny. And men are systematically distanced from the day to day realities of childcare.

Mind you my DH took 2 months sole care parental leave when DS was a baby and he still needs instructions to operate the washing machine or empty the Dyson so it’s not a panacea.

All for it.

But then I also think anyone who hasn't had any children should get an identical length/paid sabbatical as in my experience many firms don't have maternity/paternity cover but just expect the rest of the team to pick up the work of the person who is off with no additional recompense.

DH gets a month paternity and we'll be using shared parental leave. He will take his paternity straight after the birth, so we'll be off together for the first month. I will then take a further 8 months. I will then officially go back to work but will be on full pay annual leave, some rolled over from the current annual leave year, some accrued next year, 58 days total, plus ten kit days, so I will be of almost a year. During this annual leave time he will be on shared parental leave, when I go back properly he will still be on shared parental leave for a further month. I get more time than he does to physically recover, but he still gets four months, in addition to that he will also it some of his very gross annual leave allowance (a further 34 days) spread over the rest of my maternity period. You're making sweeping statements about fathers' allowances that aren't true. This is UK btw.

*he will also use some of his very generous annual leave allowance

@havelockvetinari @justbecauseyouareuniquedoesnot

"There won't be equality for women in the workplace (or anything even approaching equality) until more men step up to the childcare plate. Out of the women I met before I gave birth quite a few of them were horrified that I planned to share parental leave 50/50 and said they would never consider doing it themselves due to having to give up their own leave. Yes it would be expensive, but so is maternity leave. Helping men is helping women in this case."

I couldn't agree more with this. The more equally paternity leave is treated towards men and women, the more society will see parenthood as an equal thing that happens to mothers and fathers and the problems women find in getting jobs due to childbearing age stigma, the discrimination they face in the workplace due to parental leave and ongoing parental responsibilities will all be hugely reduced if employers and society in general has an expectation that both parents will be out of the workplace and sharing parental duties for some months and years.

The sooner we make child-rearing a two parent job, the sooner women will enjoy greater equality in the workplace. I am strongly of the opinion that shared equal parental leave entitlements is a feministic issue. (feminism defined as equal treatment of men and women)

The misandry and sexism on these forums in general really shocks me. Men are belittled to useless, pointless, second class people of little value. In many of the sentences on this thread, for example, we could just replace the word 'parent' with 'worker' and 'man' with 'woman' and we have a very straightforward sexist thread all would recognise.

Men's mental health is a very serious issue. Parental leave is shown to help and should be their right, a decent bond with their child is fundamental.

This is addition to the child's right to bond with both parents equally.

There are some physical differences which I can't deny of course....

.... A father's shoulder is bigger, warmer and more comforting than a mother's, a father's voice is deeper and more soothing than a mother's, a father has strength to rock a baby for hours longer than a mother. A father has a natural capacity for play and fun which tends to exceed a mother's more nurturing instincts.

I am playing devil's advocate there a little but hopefully people will get my point: yes of course there are some physical advantages women have in terms of feeding, but similarly men can do many physically taxing jobs that women are unable to do to the same standard.

Women have more to give in the workplace and should be treated equally as far as physically possible. Men have more to give in the home and should be treated equally as far as physically possible.

Once these guidelines are established, they can be tailored by the couple depending on their personal circumstances. A woman may need her own recovery time from a difficult birth, a father may have a big work project that clashes with birth of child, or a mother may have big work project that clashes with birth of child! Either way, starting from a frame of equality, parents should be then free to make their choices.

I would certainly be happy to pay more tax to fund the rights of fathers.

If you start a campaign @havelockvetinari I am fully on board to help in any way I can. Sign me up!

Feministic? New word! Typo...

*Feminist issue!