To be annoyed at the new company?

[Bubblegum89]

I work in a primary school doing catering. I’ve been there for 4 years, it works well for us because it means I don’t have to worry about childcare in the holidays. It’s not the most glamorous job but it paid okay and worked around my daughter.

In May this year, the school decided to change contracts. They didn’t want to use our company anymore and opted for another company to take over. We would keep our jobs but just Tupe over to this new company. Now, the nature of the job is you can’t leave until everything is done. My contracted hours aren’t great but the workload meant I could get a lot of overtime. Usually 2, maybe 3 a day. The new company assured us that this wouldn’t change when they took over.

So we went back to work last week and the new company had started with their new menus etc. The workload has now doubled meaning we are finishing later than usual (just me and my supervisor work there). However they have just told us that between the two of us, they will only allow 1 hour of overtime. My supervisor has said I can have it.

We are going to work to rule. After speaking with the manager of the company, it’s apparent that their overtime policy will not change meaning all the extra work I did last week was unpaid. I’m not about to work for free. We worked our arses off, not even having time to stop to eat or drink, and to know that I worked for about 6 hours for nothing has annoyed me. I’m not prepared to do my job for free just to make this new company look good.

Seeing as their overtime policy won’t change, if we work to rule and they realise that when I walk out at 1pm every day when there’s still a tonne of work to be done, I imagine they will say we need a third person in the kitchen which will again take overtime off me. Unless they allow me to be paid more overtime or increase my contracted hours (which it doesn’t sound like they will do) then financially, I’m worse off there. I get that they’re a different company with different rules and that’s fine but if I’m going to be worse off money-wise, it makes sense to leave and find something else. My supervisor is wanting to leave too for the same reason.

I already have another job at another school in the mornings. I’m happy staying there. And at the moment, I’m good going in to my main job to do strictly the hours they will pay me for and nothing else. Has anyone ever ended up leaving a job due to a change in hours/pay? Or has anyone done a work to rule that ended up actually working in their favour? I feel like maybe it’s already a lost cause but it’s worth a try anyway. I know that leaving a job voluntarily means I will be heavily sanctioned (we are entitled to a small amount of universal credit) and I’m worried that this is all kind of a lose-lose situation.

I think it's a lost cause. The new company won't back down. Rather than seeing the need to employ more staff, they are more likely to see the need to change the staff that they currently have for someone more willing to fall into line.

If I were you I'd keep my head down, put up with it and look for another job asap. Sometimes it's better to swallow one's pride in order to obtain a decent reference for a future employer.

Start looking for the new job but absolutely don’t work for free.

Thank you for your replies! I considered just leaving before they told me to leave tbh. I used to enjoy going into work but last week I woke up every morning feeling sick, dreading the day, coming home with a migraine from not having time to drink any water/rushing about in a hot kitchen/not being able to eat anything at all all day. I don’t want to get to the point where I’m making myself ill, it’s not worth it. I do agree though that it’s their policy and they aren’t going to change it just for us. It’ll be a ‘like it or lump it’ situation I assume

If you work to rule, which it sounds like you should, then expect their first step to be demands for you to get all the work done in the shorter time period. Increase your efficiency. It could get very stressful, depending on their expectation of what you should be able to get done.

Start looking and save yourself. They have obviously offered to complete the contract for less money and their own profit margin won't be high enough to absorb and increase in your hours. The money isn't there and never will be.

Is this a state school?

We changed caterers last year but I work in an independent school. If my bursar had found out that was happening she’d have found it unacceptable and would sort it directly with the company.

If the extra hours aren't being paid for, it's very likely this reduces your overall pay for the hours worked to below the national minimum wage. Report this breach to HMRC, and let the school know what's going on as well.

I would leave asap. At this time of the year there might be jobs going in other schools. I used to work for a cleaning company in the morning to fit around my children's morning school run but we were tuped too and the new company was always giving us sly little extra jobs to do for the same hours and pay which meant I was later leaving and the school run was a stressed out nightmare to get there on time. It wasn't worth the pressure.
Can you increase your hours in the job you like? That's what I did and found a little lunchtime job too.

I think they need to come and watch what's happening!

Don't go in guns blazing to start with - speak to the head Teacher about the work load and pay/conditions - they won't want to lose staff and have to find cover - or have the lunch disrupted

They're breaking the law, and trusting that the people suffering are too intimidated to do anything about it. The company almost certainly got the contract by promising to cost less, and the basis for that promise is not paying the staff already earning the least. This is the 'efficiency' of outsourcing. Please report them, please?

We’ve considered that they’re going to turn around and say “well if you’re only going to do your contracted hours then the work needs to be completed in that time frame” however it isn’t physically possible to do that because of the extra workload we’ve been given. We used to do two meal options. Now we are doing 4 options plus 4 dessert options. Not only is it more work to prep/cook, it takes longer to serve with the different elements plus the fact that the younger children get very overwhelmed with the amount of choices and take forever to decide what they want. That means that we finish serving around maybe 12.45. The hours they are offering me take me to 1. That would give me 15 minutes to wash 120 plates, cups, all cutlery, wipe down surfaces, clean the dishwasher, put chairs/tables away in the hall, brush/mop the hall, brush and mop the kitchen. It’s just not possible and I think the new company know that it’s not possible but aren’t willing to pay the extra time it will take. They are a much cheaper company, £10,000 less per year than the previous company so I imagine they don’t have the money to give out for all the extra overtime which I do understand but I’m annoyed at the fact that they told us that we would get the exact same hours and pay as before when that was never going to be an option. I would rather they had just said “we’re a smaller company and so the hours we can offer you are going to be less than you have currently” and I could have made some headway into looking for another job during the summer hols. I’m also annoyed that they let me work so much overtime last week without telling me that I wasn’t going to be paid for it. It’s just bad practice imo and I don’t really want to work for a company like that.

And yes, it’s a state school. We had spoken to the head and the lady who deals with the catering company for the school. The head isn’t at all interested and only wants to know why things are running so slowly. The other lady is trying to reassure us but she is obviously being told one thing by the company and we’re being told something else. I don’t see it getting any better for us so thinking that maybe just jumping ship before it gets worse is better than staying, having them take advantage of me or end up letting me go because I’m not finishing my job fully (even though that’s because they aren’t paying me to). I’m quite worried about money if I was to leave but at the moment, I just want out

Was overtime mentioned in your previous contract? It’s a while since I did anything TUPE related but if it was, I think that they are breaching TUPE by not paying you as your terms and conditions should transfer with you.

I suspect if you work to rule, they will not suddenly see the light. They are more likely to see you as needing to be managed out.
I’d start looking for another job and stick it whilst you can.
Employers are getting worse imho. I work many hours extra unpaid and it does gall me but it keeps my job in place. In honesty I need them more than they need me.

Have you spoken to the HT? As a CoG we had something similar happen when we changed a cleaning contract. We spoke to the new contractors and resolved the issue in our cleaners favour. I think you might well get a similar response if you speak to your HT.

GreenTulips that’s the best part, they’ve been there all week lol we’ve had a manager “helping” us and a few other people have been in to also “help”.

For example, Friday is our busiest day. It’s chip day and kids love chips. This Friday we also had some reception kids and their parents come in for lunch too. So extra work on top of all the extra work. There were three people in from the new company in total. While we ran around like headless chickens, they sat in our office drinking coffee and chatting about the weekend. When we had finished serving, we had too much to do to stop for any lunch. The three of them came out and started piling their plates full of food then went back into the office to eat it while we were bloody starving but up to our eyes in dishes.

In terms of reporting them, my supervisor has already spoken to the school twice last week about them and how they aren’t giving us overtime but making us finish the work, not really helping at all etc. We do a snack at break time. Used to just be toast, now it’s all toast and tea cakes and bacon butties and pancakes. Again, extra work. The break money used to go in with the numbers we did for lunch which increased our work hours so basically the snack at breaktime counted towards our hours and our overtime. That’s now been a scrapped. It’s purely now just snacks for the sake of it, it doesn’t count towards our hours at all so we are effectively doing that for free as well. The school isn’t interested. It’s a very money-orientated school and I think their only interest is that this company is saving them a lot of money. As far as they’re concerned, we don’t really matter because if we don’t work there, someone else will

www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/worker-disputes-over-minimum-wage

Are you in a union? It sounds like you need some legal advice about the effects of Tupe.

Speek to the head of the school,they are employing them..they may have some influence...or not ,don't know how these things work
But that's what I would do ,speek to head

Daisym00n one of our biggest concerns regarding the company switchover was that our hours would decrease. We were reassured by our school and by the company themselves that this would not be the case and that would only ever get either the same hours/pay as before or more. Never less.

icelolly I have a feeling a work to rule would make no difference whatsoever as well to be honest but my supervisor thinks we should give it a go. They would probably struggle to find someone else to do the job on the hours they’re offering, the fact we are already there and so “have” to comply is better for them (they’ve actually said to us that they need us more than we need them which I thought was an odd thing to say). But I don’t doubt that they WOULD find someone to fill our positions if we were to leave/be told to leave. If it was a job I adored, I would maybe stick it out and just grin and bear it.

I’m considering leaving and, whilst looking for another job (whilst also keeping my morning job where there aren’t any extra hours at the minute unfortunately) doing some volunteering in my daughter’s primary school. Just reading with kids, helping with maths etc. I realise that’s basically working without getting paid lol but I would love to work in a school (and not the kitchen!) and that perhaps volunteering to do something like that could lead to paid work in the future. The idea of sitting around doing nothing is almost as bad as the idea of being stuck in that place with that ridiculous company

Also for those of you saying to speak to the head, we have and she won’t do anything. She asked me on Friday why the hall wasn’t done yet (she likes to have it cleaned and put away by 1.15 but it was 1.40 at this point) I told her we were so busy we just hadn’t got round to it and that the company people that were there were busy messing about on a computer so hadn’t gone out to put the stuff away. Instead of popping her head in and saying to them “do you mind just giving us a hand with the hall?” she told me that we (as in me and my supervisor) would have to hurry up and get out into the hall ASAP.

We have a midday who used to come in drunk all the time. Around other people’s kids. She was sent home 4 times in the space of two months for being pissed at work. We went to the head with concerns. She never did anything.

Talk to a solicitor ASAP. My understanding of the TUPE rules is that they cannot change your terms of employment for a fixed period, usually something like at least a year. Take your previous terms and the new terms to the solicitor.

I'd also give ACAS a call, as they should be aware of the rules too.

I would ring ACAS.

I also think that the NMW comes into it, because the more hours you work for the same money, means that they are not paying NMW.

I think that Work to Rule is the only way to get your message across that you need more hours to do the work that is required.

The only way that this company has got the job is by doing it for less money which means cutting the hours. The only way that they can see that the hours aren't enough is when the job doesn't get done.

Maybe the HT will pull her head out of her arse if she sees that the job isn't being done properly as quoted by the new company!

I'd let the Chair of Governors know about the issue as well. It seems as if the new company may have got their sums wrong when bidding and are trying to stay within budget, not that it is a reason for their behaviour.

See, that’s what we were told by them. That they would absolutely not give us less hours or pay us any less because Tupe protected us from that. I don’t understand how they’re expecting to get away with it. Like, did they honestly think we wouldn’t question it? That we would happily accept less overtime and work half the day for free? My supervisor has already clashed three times with the ops manager who has been with us since Tuesday. In four days, they’ve been at each other’s throats three times! If a company is doing their part to ensure their employees are taken care of, there’d be no reason to clash so much so it just goes to show that they’re not living up to anything they promised

With TUPE you transfer over on the same T&Cs?!