AIBU to insist on a court order?

[fennelteadrinker]

Hello, I'm new to this, first time poster so please be gentle - sorry for the long post, but I want to give all the background so I don’t drip feed. I have two DC with ex-partner. We broke up almost two years ago now; he left me for his current partner with whom he now has another child. He was always verbally and financially abusive when we were together, but during and after the break up he was physically abusive, police were called several times and I now have a Non-Mol in place valid until next year.

Since the beginning contact has been tricky with him often missing weekends (we agreed every other) or when he did pick up he was abusive, rude and insolent. I went NC with him, and have tried to arrange things through his family members, in an attempt to protect myself from the abuse, and my best friend is usually present when he picks up and drops off (as he isn’t normally abusive in front of others) to protect my children from witnessing it. He lived about 20 miles away, and 50% of the time, he’d collect my DC on a Friday and then say he couldn’t drop them off on Sunday, so I’d have to go an collect them.

He’s since moved 100 miles away to set up home with current partner. Contact has been okay with him picking up and dropping off on the agreed dates, although never agreed times. 3 weekends ago his mum came to collect the children on the promise that he would bring them back as usual. On the Sunday night his mother told me that he had car trouble and would bring them back on Monday, and on Monday he said he wasn’t prepared to take the train so I’d need to make the trip (to a random landmark I might add, I’m not allowed to know where he lives even though my children go there). We were due to go on holiday the following day, so I had to make a 5 hour round trip to collect them.

I’m unwilling to go back to the old pattern of having to collect the kids every other time he has them (he chose to move so far away from them), so would like a child arrangement order to be put in place.

His mother has just messaged informing me that he will collect the children tomorrow morning (he missed his last weekend with them with no communication, but this is technically ‘his’ weekend). I’m thinking of responding to her saying, “he needs to put a child arrangement order in first place”, or "he is not collecting without a court order” or simply say, "this weekend doesn't work" and follow it up with and email detailing exactly why? Basically I don’t want contact to cease (my DC love their Dad), but I have anxiety every time he is coming to collect them because I don’t know what he’ll do, I’m uncomfortable with not knowing where my children stay when they're with him (what if one of them was sick etc.), and I’m afraid that if he takes them, he’ll refuse to return them, which will force me to make a 5 hour round trip to collect them. AIBU? What do you think?

I do not want a court order to enforce contact what I was hoping that it would do would 'smooth over' the contact process as communication has totally broken down

Quite honestly, your ex is not a good candidate for any sort of visitation.

He has abused you, and if your children were under the same roof then he abused them . There is no getting around this.

When you were separating, his abuse escalated. This bodes very badly for any future conflict, order or no order. It was his way of telling you that he will not give up the right he feels he has to torment and control you. An order could easily give him the tool to do that.

An order will not change his desire to control you or intimidate you. He will spend his time and suck your energy exploiting loopholes in the order, questioning the meaning or intent of phrases in the order, pushing the envelope as far as he feels he can push it. You will always be on your guard.

Once granted, an order is extremely hard to change, to get a variance from, or to revoke altogether no matter how abusive he becomes to you. The bar for removing visitation rights from a father is set exceptionally high. You would have to prove serious and unmistakable abuse of your children at his hands if you were ever to seek to revoke it. The effect of continued contact on you would be irrelevant in the eyes of the court.

Were you married? Is his name on the DCs' birth certs?

Mathanxiety- thank you for all of your advice so far. We were never married but 'cohabiting' for 7 or so years; his name is on the birth certificates and DC have his surname.

I totally understand what you are saying about his controlling and abusive ways and I know that the court process will be draining but I cannot willingly stop contact between them and him. If HE chooses not to comply and engage with the process then that's on him but going NC is not what I want. I just want my DC to see him and for him to leave me alone ( this might not be the outcome but I am willing to work towards this)

Doyoumind- yes, I am the resident parent and I am hoping that what the order will eventually enforce is little or no communication between my ex and myself (once the order is in place) and regular contact - obviously he does not have to adhere but having it in place is comforting for me.

I have also read that mediation is advised when DV is concerned so I was steering clear of this however, I didn't realise that they also were not legally trained.

I have refused contact for this week and told his mother that her mediation is not working. I have contacted a few companies and will get some free legal advice next week.

Thank you all so much for your detailed responses it has really helped me to make an informed decision and also given me the strength to stand up for myself as I had the facts behind me!

Thank you, thank you, thank you

You will be able to specify how you communicate with each other in the court order and I think it will reduce the pressure on you. It won't solve things completely but it will probably help.

I always say on these threads to make sure you get a solicitor you are happy with. I spoke to a couple who left me feeling very despondent because they really didn't understand my circumstances and made me feel i had no power in the situation. Finally I found someone who I trusted and seemed to genuinely care what happened in my case.

My question to.you at this point is how long are you going to withhold contact as a court order is not a speedy process. You already know this is upsetting for the DC so please consider your game plan.

I just want my DC to see him and for him to leave me alone

This is not how it is going to work. Contact always means something different for the abuser than it does for the reasonable, decent parent.

Please read 'The Batterer as Parent' by Lundy Bancroft to give you some insight into potential outcomes for your children and for yourself. Nobody is giving out medals for doing the honourable thing here..
www.ncdsv.org/images/Bancroft_BattererAsParentAddressingImpactOfDVonFamilyDynamics_2002.pdf

I don’t have much advice but what worked for my friend who had trouble with her ex dropping the children back at the agreed time was to get court agreement that her ex would pick them up on his contact days and she’d pick them up. That way she wasn’t at his mercy of delaying bringing them back to her and she had his address.

ArnoldBee I understand your point and understand that the court process can be lengthy but there needs to be an end to his games. I also believe that he will only stop once he is forced/ told to by someone other than me or his family

Always court order.

The court process doesn't need to be that long anyway. We're talking months not years, and the prospect of saving years of being messed around and controlled.

You have no guarantee that the messing around will stop with a court order. An abusive man will always find ways to push the envelope.

For example, you could have an agreement that he picks the DCs up at the start of a weekend and you pick them up to go home.

What could possibly go wrong?

• He decides last minute that he isn't coming after all and he will ask you for the next weekend instead. You look unreasonable if you say you have plans for next weekend with the DCs. The DCs are disappointed because ex promised a trip to somewhere nice the last time he was in contact with them. Ex tells them what a pity mum wouldn't let you go on her weekend instead as he would have taken them on the promised trip that weekend.

• He arrives two hours early or four hours late for his pickup time, with no advance warning. The children either haven't eaten, have no clothes/toys packed, or he insists they miss some Friday afternoon activity that you have paid for or that you have arranged with another child because he is right there being loud and insistent in front of some other child who has come to play at your home, or in the latter case, the children have already gone to bed and he berates you for not having them stay up waiting/have told them dad isn't coming thus undermining trust in him. You have to tell another parent that sorry, your ex has shown up and the playdate is off (embarrassing for you) or if he is late, you have spent the evening wondering where the heck he is. If you had plans for the evening, you have had to cancel.

• You arrive at his place at the designated time. The lights are off and there's no-one at home. It turns out they went for an outing and don't return until several hours later. This is blamed on some spurious car trouble or someone getting lost or whatever. They haven't bothered telling you they are late or how late they will be. You have no way of proving the lateness was deliberate or that the phone signal was perfectly fine and they could well have phoned you. You are left cooling your heels for several hours. The children have school next morning and it is well past bedtime by the time they get home.

• When you get the children home after their weekend you discover that ex has ignored the fact that they had homework or some project to do and you are left with a solar system to construct in an hour and a half on Sunday evening.

You do NOT need to attend mediation with a partner who has been abusive. Keep track of all the times he has missed or avoided contact. I’ve found my court order invaluable, but my ex does stick to it. It may be less useful otherwise.

Indeed, it may not be worth the paper it is printed on eventually, but you have no way of knowing how it will turn out until it is in place and very hard to change or scrap in favour of NC. If a judge finds that continued contact is in the best interests of the children and therefore issues an order it will be very difficult to change the mind of that judge afterwards.

However, the fact that you had to get a non-mol order against him (the fact that the court viewed his behaviour as warranting one) is a strong indication that this man will chafe at restrictions and is very angry with you. Non-mol orders are not issued lightly.

Has he pushed the envelope with the non-mol order? He has been abusive, rude and insolent with you to the point where you have a friend present at pickup times, despite the order.

I really would talk to a solicitor about all of your options here. I would talk to Women's Aid about the situation too.
0808 2000 247 - leave a message and they will get back to you.
www.womensaid.org.uk/

What WA can tell you is their considered opinion on whether this man is a candidate for the sort of respectful communication that a successful court ordered visitation arrangement requires.

So can the Lundy Bancroft link I posted. But I would call WA if I were you, because you can have an ongoing dialogue with them and a free exchange of thoughts.

Due to the distance etc you could also propose weekend contact every 3rd weekend rather than EOW so you DC can take part in weekend activities and clubs.

Thank you mathanxiety I will be in contact with them!