To think this is exploiting the Elderly and their heirs?

[BengalGal]

Is there a quick answer on care for altimizers with 80k income?

In the USA there is a sort of “retirement option” that people with a certain income can choose. It’s basically flats, often sold as high end flats, with a dining room, common areas, and a nursing/medical facility next door. You join these places when you are flush and sign away your fortune. The flat might go for 1.5 million, and a fixed annual fee, which allows you to eventually pay for meals in the common area, a weekly cleaner, laundry services, and finally the option to move from flat to hospital bed in the nearby facility for another fee. Your heirs get the flat, which they can sell for a fraction of the market value, like a third or a quarter (this is also fixed) but the company gets to make a profit reselling it to. The amount you pay for all these extras is fixed when you enter, but not any great bargain.

To me it sounds like a total rip off but people go for this because it’s so hard to get into any facility if you have a high care aging illness such as senility.

Does this model exist in the UK? My FIL is 90 and with meds still has his memory but it’s going. He has altimerzers. They have a guaranteed income of at least 90k per annum and probably more as my MIL still is a professor. They are US citizens. I would like them to retire here. What options might they have? They would prefer to live in Cambridge or oxford.

They exist, and have done for a while. There's one near me (NDN's father lived in it, until he died some years ago)

They have little bungalows, residential home, and full dementia nursing home and residents can move from one to the other if there is need. It's run by carehome.co.uk and I bet they're not the only provider.

There is also the business model of places like Hanover or MacCarthy&Stone, but I don't think their care packages (extra fees on top of a service charge) extend to full dementia nursing. AFAIK they do take a commission on resale of flats, and things like parking spaces have to be paid for separately (at least at the ones we looked in to), at a rate I thought was very expensive.

A commission is reasonable, but returning only 25 to 30% of the purchase price is not. This is the US model. On top of charging a lot for the food, when that is needed, the housecleaning, and eventually the nursing/medical care. No, they will not normally take anyone who already has a diagnosis of dementia. It's simply that he doesn't have long to live by any means that they might. They haven't actually "applied" yet. They aim for the healthy active and woo them in with lots of perks and activities etc. With nice flats with nice kitchens and grounds.

To those who found the retirement with means option for immigrating to the UK now closed, I am very confused. I believe you and I have told my DH that this is the case. Your link shows clear guidance. But when I look here I can't find it again:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/retired-persons-of-independent-means

It claims to show the latest update... but where is it?

OP, I would be cautious about most of the advice given here since (I assume) it's talking about UK citizens. There are a lot of things which as non-UK citizens your parents would also have to pay for, at least initially. I really would seek out specialist advice. You could try the UK-Yankee forums too.

The latest update is the link on that page, though. It says it is the updated version.

And reading through the first couple of pages of that document, it's pretty clear that it is no longer a permitted way of entering the UK. So unless your parents have another category they could use, and I admit I'm struggling to think of one that could be relevant, I think you need to give up this idea. Sorry.

I have given up, I just wonder why when I click I don't get any later link to the update. I can only read it through the first posted link on this site. Is it chrome that is the issue? Is it using a mac? It's great to get perfect advice but annoying when I can't find it myself to show my DH. I prefer he not be a mumnetter....

what are altimizers?

It's here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/674717/retired-persons-of-independent-means-v12_0.pdf

I searched for the 'retired persons independent means' and it popped up. First paras say the category has now closed.

Sorry, just saw that someone else has posted that - it appears, as I say, if you search the gov. site for that phrase.

Not remotely on topic but it they come to the UK you need to watch that they don't get hit with a double whammy of tax from both the us and uk. There are double taxation treatiesin place but the last thing they want to do is loose more income to tax when its needed for care.

Have your grandparents UK residents? It's hard to understand from your OP. If not, they wouldn't be entitled to NHS care, would they?

We have the same things here, some better than others. There are ways around signing away your capital. My husband's aunt bought something like that and loved it, moved elsewhere (same deal) years later to be near her son and has been happy. When she dies her place will be sold but for the same price she paid for it many years ago. In the interim she has had a lovely place to live and felt secure. Of course she gave away a lot to her children before she moved into a retirement complex and still has money. So it's OK for some. Depends on individual circumstances.

I work closely with this sector.

As others have already said, there are a number of “retirement living” providers in the UK, although the extent of comparative supply is only about 10% of the levels available in the USA, NZ or Australia.

You need to be very clear about the different operating models the firms involved have - for example, McCarthy & Stone; Churchill are development companies and aren’t really that bothered about maintaining the buildings in the longer term, which results in the properties losing value over time but they only charge a small “exit fee” upon resale. By contrast, companies that act as operators want to ensure that their “product” increases in value over time. This can only be done by reinvesting in the properties (e.g. re-roofing every 20/25 years). These companies will charge larger “exit fees” to cover these costs in addition to monthly service charges which are intended to cover normal overheads (e.g. 24/7 on-site staffing). If anyone is interested in these types of properties, I’d recommend ensuring that the provider is a member of the Associated Retirment Community Operators (www.arcouk.org) which is one of the few sector bodies for any industry that is pushing for more regulation in their sector.

One final point for the OP, if your PILs have Alzheimer’s then a retirement village is probably not the right environment for them and they/you should perhaps look at sheltered housing or a care home (some offer dual occupancy suites for couples) instead.

If their capital is more than £23,250… most cases residents are expected to pay privately for their care home fees.

There's a lovely looking retirement village near me in the Cotswolds - www.richmond-villages.com/retirement-villages/painswick/availability/
I always fancied retiring there!

I advise on later life planning and would avoid these schemes like the plague. The outcome for beneficiaries can be very detrimental and they are SO complex it is almost impossible to work out whether the benefits are worth it.

Far better to explore an Immediate Needs Long Term Care annuity which would deal with any shortfall between income and care costs for life and would effectively ringfence the rest of the estate from being eroded by Care costs.

You have to find a suitably qualified (CF8) adviser who can organise the quotes which means you can find out the cost before making any firm commitment. It can bring tremendous peace of mind to both the client and their family because it effectively caps the cost of care to a known figure in advance.

You can find one via the FCA website.

Oh and for those taking about NHS care, you are joking! Any care is provided by the local authority until nursing care is needed - usually much later down the road with an Alzheimer patient. In any case, their income would discount this and who wants to be dependent on care in a local authority home? I wouldn't put a dog in some of them!

An elderly aunt of mine was able to have an au pair type set up. Her helper was a qualified nurse who was applying to have her qualifications recognised in the UK. She lived with my aunt and helped out with care mornings and evenings, while earning some money.

Firstly, they should pay for the care. Why should the state subsidise care for the privileged? I'm sorry you have to deal with this though and do hope you find something suitable.

I visited one of those retirement homes in America that you talk about and I came away wanting to move in myself! The residents had a large and pleasant 3 bedroom apartment, were able to order all meals as room service or go down to one if several 'restaurants for communal eating, they had a swimming pool, Jacuzzis, saunas and gym, pub, hair dressers, cinema and games rooms all in the lower levels of the building and nurses and doctors on site... seemed well worth the money if they could afford it to me. I imagine from the point of view of the heirs it might seem frivolous and spending the inheritance, but if you worked hard for that money why shouldn't you get to spend the last years living in comfort? And if I had the means to keep good health insurance for my golden years here in amer8ca, I would not choose England and NHS for my care. In my experience the BUS has let down all the elderly members of my family in their final years with delays in treatment for degenerative conditions or just too long between appointments that simply doesn't happen here in USA if you can afford treatment.

I've was a dementia carer for 13 years, one thing I have learnt is the dementia care costs. It doesn't work like the u.s. and your parents would only be eligible for social services help if they had no savings or collateral I.e. a house. If they do own the house, the risk is that they could be made to sell it to fund his care. It is often a cheaper option to get carers in, and it will mean your parents can stay together longer