AIBU to think this girl should be in College?

[AstridPeth]

Dd1 started college today. Her friend was also due to start today but was a no show. Turns out she didn't get the grades to do the level 3 course she applied for and didn't want to do a level 2. Dd's friend has informed my dd that she has got a full time job at the factory that her parents work at. All young people are supposed to be in education or apprenticeships until 18 now so i am just wandering...is this enforced by the L.A? or will she just slip under the radar? It's non of my business but I am just curious. At 16 I am sure it seems really good money but it seems such a shame.

Storms... Job prospects in cornwall aren't great. Most young people i know go to Uni and never come back. Me...well i never left. Love my little piece of Cornwall but we are totally skint.
birdsgotta... Sorry my title was poorly worded. I know there are other options outlined by the government but I thought she HAD to be doing one of those or L.A might come chasing her up. For what's it's worth I don't necessarily agree with the forced resits. Similar to Storm...I got a really good English result at G.C.S.E but Maths was something I really struggled with and didn't pass. I went on to do my A'levels and got decent results despite not having the maths grade. But Maths was ruined for me and no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't do it. I am very interested to hear that Maths via an access course is different...maybe it's not too late for me after all!

Garden Fairy - See I didn't even think a full time job was an option. All I heard was the compulsory education until 18 and honestly didn't think 16 years olds were allowed full time jobs unless it was part of an apprenticeship. The government website doesn't give that option, but for some young people i do absolutely agree that is the best course for them. It's not a one size fits all society and having the option of full time work can be a real benefit to some 16 year olds.

"From what I have read the English/Maths resists aren't hugely successful..Dd's friend only got a 3 this year and the pass rate was a 4. Next year the pass rate is a 5."

Is this true? DD is in year 11, and I would hate to think there's going to be even more pressure for the Maths and English next year. It was bad enough for DS this year!

OP the whole thing is a bit of a fiddle by the government to reduce the benefits bill. If you can say everyone under 18 must still be in education then you don't have to give them unemployment benefit. If they were serious about implementing education or training until 18 they would have invested a hell of a lot more in post 16 education and apprenticeships. A lot of post 16 education centres have had their budgets cut to the bone and with schools under pressure to top the league tables and only keep the most able students for A Levels there is no where to go for the kids who aren't getting the top grades.
This system fails so many kids because they can't get in to school, the college has no places and then no-one will employ them without qualifications. It could be such a good idea if it was backed up with money to really support it but isn't and I really worry for the kids who don't manage an apprenticeship or university. At least your friends DD has a job to fall back on.

Astrid the option of 16 year olds leaving school and gaining full time education is not on the schools option list. Its all a ploy to not have to pay benefits to school leavers. But if a student is unable to gain grades of C or above to attend college or A's and B's to attend 6th form A levels what other option do they have? Some apprenticeships need grades A to C too.

I certainly wouldn't want my ds to come out of school and think he was destined for the scrap heap and have no option than to claim benefits for the rest of his life. I am overjoyed that he scraped his grades to enable him to attend college He failed maths and English - well not failed exactly, he got a D in both, but failed as far as the government is concerned. As it stands he is able to retake both subjects at college (He probably wont pass) but I dont know how it stands if 16 year olds gain full time employment because they didn't get the grades for higher education. Will they still have to take maths and English until they pass? If so how?

I hate Gove!

*If she doesn't pass will she be stuck on the level 2 course?"

No she won't. My DD didn't do the Maths needed for L3, but as an Adult (20) she doesn't need the Maths*

Things have changed dramatically in the last couple of years.

Now you have to have both Maths and English at grade 4. (Looks like from a pp that it has to be grade 5 next year.) Before you can do Level 3. I know Ds is having to do the resit in English next year, (scraped onto a level 2 course) but is most likely not going to be able to pass.

He will be part qualified and he will leave college for that year then return post 18 to do the Level 3 course (from my understanding Level 3 as a “mature” student is based on ability and working in the industry. Although that might change)

I know from the colleges around here that all bar one has changed its criteria from last year to this and ds if we only had the choice of the other 2 colleges then he wouldn’t be going to college.

By making a lot of non academic courses Eg Electricain, plumbing, bricklaying hair dressing academic it is not going to bode well for the future.

If we are turning away students who would be perfectly good plumbers, brick layers and hairdressers because they have not passed an English and Maths exam then we are going to end up with a shortage of these trades.

I can only look to nursing. Which has already gone down a similar route and now we have a shortage of nurses.

Whilst Gove and the rest are trying to massage the unemployment figures and congratulating themselves that they have pulled up the draw bridge to claim benefits pre 18 they have made it so difficult for anyone who maybe very bright but fails to attain 2 particular exams to pursue a career that unemployment will rise hugely in the next few years as this policy kicks in.

Maybe this is why they are so sore at Brexit as they were relying on European immigrants to take over the jobs that the British would not be qualified to do to keep the country running.

I've just googled and can't find anything to suggest that the new pass mark will be level 5 next year.

Yes, you are right. In England, compulsory education is now until 18. Under 18’s should not be working full time without training or education. They do though. It’s supposed to be enforced through LA’s targeting those not participating (although enforcement isn’t law) but most of the time it isn’t.
There’s not the support, law or the manpower to enforce it.

Oh and yes, there are a lot of employers who will refuse to employ full time at 16-17 without them being on a training programme or apprenticeship.

Yes the RPA states all young people under the age of 18 must remain in education, and that could include an apprenticeship. Full time work without training is not meant to be an option but in reality no one will care. She will not be pursued by the LA, or local careers service if you still have one. The only sanction will be any benefits or child benefit will cease the same as they would if she was unemployed and at home doing nothing. There are no penalities other than that.

Just had a look at the government website

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland you can leave at 16. No mention of apprenticeships. or staying in education.

When I left at 16, the YTS was meant to include training.....that soon stopped and it was just under paid shop work.
It's not really your concern if the girl is working full-time.
Some are just not academic....why always try to shoehorn kids into FE?
She's not claiming benefits....also, right or wrong, her family may need that money.
Mine did!

In my area, for the most part you can't procede with FE if you don't pass English and Maths. There is one college that lets you resit alongside taking a level one or two course but not level three.

You can't get an apprenticeship if you haven't past English and Maths. You can't get a job with a training course without English and Maths. You can't do A Levels and continue in school if you haven't got English and Maths.

So what are you supposed to do?

I know other areas are not the same. Although last year in this area all the colleges and schools fell into line with other areas and allowed resits alongside courses etc.

Last year when I was looking I wasn't worried if ds failed his English as I could see there was a choice of colleges available. Fast forward to getting this year's prospectus and only one college is now available and although he can do Level 2 there he won't as it stands be able to start level 3.

He is prepared that he may not complete his training and we are going to have to think about what he does when the time arrives.

Who knows what next year they will come up with

I'm nearly 50 and when I was at school you could leave at 14 if you had a full time job to go to!

The school leaving she was raised to 16 in 1972 and do that isn’t right.

I think you may be confused with being able to leave mid year in the 5th year. I am 50 and you could leave in the spring term if you were born before February?

Between 1976 and 1997, the minimum school leaving arrangements were:

A child whose sixteenth birthday falls in the period 1 September to 31 January inclusive, may leave compulsory schooling at the end of the Spring term (the following Easter).
A child whose sixteenth birthday falls in the period 1 February to 31 August, may leave on the Friday before the last Monday in May.

Under the Education Act 1996, a new single school leaving date was set for 1998 and all subsequent years thereafter. This was set as the last Friday in June in the school year which the child reaches the age of 16.[26]

This came up on my phone this morning.

www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/what-happens-you-dont-college-15096182.amp

So in other words nothing.

I think there will be more and more 16 year olds who will fall through the cracks in the future as more and more colleges and schools resort to only taking on those that got English and Maths and other GCSEs.

The whole system is changing every year (so anyone who has children who went through college even last year things have changed)
If Ds doesn’t pass his English re sit then he can’t get into the Level 3 course next year.

The college Ds is going to had a stream of people who hadn’t passed the required subjects or who hadn’t got enough GCSEs who had been registered at other colleges but had been turned away because of their results.