To feel sad about greedy landlords and the high street?

[malificent7]

So my local New Look is closing. Not the best shop in the world but I am not really into the expensive Fat Face/Boden/ Sea Salt / White stuff look and DD LOVES it. They are closing because of sky high rents on the high street. I guess I am gutted as it is the one clothes shop in my small town. The shop assistants are devastated and have no jobs to go to.
I really hope it is replaced by something like H and M which is affordable. Likewise, House of Frazer is closing shops. I can see why as I feel their model is outdated and expensive but I am sad for those who loose their jobs.
I guess there are some shops that are thriving...I LOVE the Works and thankfully they seem to be thriving. BHS was no loss to me but aibu to feel that it is a shame that shops are closing due to sky high rents?

At the same time retailers do need to up their game and keep up with fashions. I just wonder what our high streets will look like in 10 years time.

I suppose internet shopping has a lot to do with it.

I doubt they are shutting because of rents those rents were fine when the high Street was booming. The internet has changed everything , retailers who are slow to change will die off. Has always been that way. It's just part of the evolution of the high st

I don't think you can blame landlords per se if other chains are thriving. Unfortunately if it's the only one, it suggests that it's not the most profitable location for selling clothes. New Look seems to have spread itself quite thin. I hope you get something decent in its place.

It is the rent and rates, as well as competition from the Internet. High street land is prime land and any shops that survive will end up in out of town centres that are cheaper to run. The shops that continue will be ones like Primark.

In our town, something closes almost every week. There’s no Thornton’s, Mothercare, Pia, Multiyork, Jacques Vert, Laura Ashley and loads more, as well as lots of independent shops.

Our town was a total shit hole. Charity shops, pound shops, endless barbers/ nail bars. They tripled the rents and they all had to move out. Now we have nice shops and the town centre is much improved

I love New Look as well and would be sad if it closed down altogether.

Luckily their internet service is great, for £20 you can buy a delivery pass and get anything delivered next day for no extra charge.

I am starting teacher training on Wednesday and I think that every item of clothing that I have bought came from New Look.

Many years ago some shops shut on Wednesday and opened Saturdays and shops were shut Sundays. There were local markets. Now there are huge out of town shopping arcades, open 7 days a week. There are fewer markets and on line shopping if you order at 10pm at night, the goods are delivered the next day free of charge. There were no self service supermarket tills. People filled your car up at the petrol station. We won't go back to the earlier days, but where will people work if there are no shops ?

but where will people work if there are no shops ?

Distribution centres? Lots of them about now.

I think ‘greedy landlords’ is a term the press love because it creates good copy. However, the reality is that many of these retailers signed long-term leases in a very different retail market. Why are the landlords ‘greedy’ for wanting their contracts to be honoured?

If I have to take a pay cut, is the bank greedy for still wanting the full mortgage each month? If I go for a better paid job, am I greedy for not sticking with what I currently get?

You sell your assets, be they physical or intellectual, for what they’re worth. It only becomes greed when you hold out for a price you can’t command - e.g. landlords who won’t come to an arrangement on rents when they’ve had zero other interest in a unit.

Thing is, if landlords start reducing the rent for one tenant ...

Part of the problem is the entire UK system which makes it possible to make more money from keeping buildings empty, and land unused than to actually do business with them. If nothing else, urban land should be sold with a "use it or lose it" law in place.

We've got a weird thing going on where established shops move around the same shopping centre as they get a cheaper rate as a 'new' business.

New Look is moving from one prominent corner to the opposite end of the same place.

Card Factory did it too.

People who blame the internet look at Primark you cannot order online even for click and collect and they couldn't be doing better.

I am more sad about independent shops TBH. One of my favourites where I used to live was a little ice-cream shop which was affordable and delicious - the owner loved what she did and was always so happy. She was just pushed out by rent prices and the fact that the chain around the corner could always undercut her selling something less good but better known.

People who blame the internet look at Primark you cannot order online even for click and collect and they couldn't be doing better.

There will be a concentration of what's left. When Allders went, I bet HoF and Debenhams saw a boost. With BHS and M&S gone or going, the remaining custom will boost Primark. For a while.

The rates more than anything are the reason so many shops can’t compete in my local towns . That and online competition.

DG very true but Primark has always been popular and I think it will continue to thrive no matter what.

It is a shame to see all these fantastic shops going though I think Woolworths upset me the most followed by BHS.

DG very true but Primark has always been popular and I think it will continue to thrive no matter what.

Only if it evolves.

Even Next - who a few years ago were being touted as the paradigm of doing business in a digital age - are struggling now, as I understand it.

The real reasons are more complex than just "rates". It's a combination of factors. Just taking DS (for example) the only place he'd go to buy clothes is Primark, or one of a very select few shops (£90 for a shirt ffs !!!!). M&S are dead to him. No point their even trying to appeal to him - or his generation (?). There's also changed working patterns, changing ideas about how leisure time is spent (with even some women realising that shopping isn't a leisure pursuit - I'll get my coat ). Changes in transport systems and attitudes too.

I think Woolworths upset me the most

Woolworths lasted longer than they should. A really good pointer about a business viability is when you walk into their shop, know know exactly what the deal is. Sadly you walked into Woolworths and found yourself thinking "What exactly is this shop ?".

it's on that basis that I cast Boots to be in trouble. (Meanwhile, Lloyds appear to have nailed it. They are exactly what they are, and you know it the moment you step inside the shop.)

This isn't the case where I live (market town, south west).
New shopping area in the town centre opened a few years back, and everywhere is always busy.

We've got free parking in the town though, which makes all the difference.

Rates have a lot to do with it. I rent a small shop unit in west london.

After the recession in 2008 the rates stayed the same, the rent stayed the same. No one took pity on my business because trade was down 50%.
Neither my landlord nor the council reduced my rent/rates.

When the next rates review came round my rateable value went up as it takes average market rents as the marker, so in terms of the council taking rates from my shop unit it was as if the recession hadn't happened.

Rates aren't linked to how much profit your business earns but how much your rent is. Leases are written with upwards only rent. It was very bad luck for me, but that's the way it goes.

landlords probably prefer to take rent from rate free nationally financed charity shops or international chains.

What annoys me is that business rates is an extra tax on business. But as a business I don't get anything in return beyond the council sweeping the street outside and keeping the streetlights on: they don't even collect your rubbish for that! And my rates are half my rent.

I've noticed around my area that shop units are being renovated and turning into luxury residential instead.

I think if councils want to keep local shops they need to rebalance rates for bricks and mortar on high streets and up rates for warehouses that distribute goods bought over the internet.

Landlords do not want empty shops they want them let otherwise they're paying the rates with no income. Money for rates goes to central government and they divy it out, its an unequal system.

Landlords are fighting to keep the high streets alive, it's not in their benefit if the shops close. Easy to blame them, BHS owned a lot of their stores but still went under

High streets need to change.
They need to realise that online shopping is more convenient, can be cheaper etc
They need to change to providing an experience, so spaces for street performers, little play park nearby, green spaces of possible, get cafes and restaurants and pubs instead of tat shops.
Get independent butchers, bakers, greengrocers etc

They need to entice people in and keep them there for as long as possible so actually make the experience enjoyable.
Make me want to come out, because sitting at home ordering clothes etc is easier and a better experience right now.

Business rates should be based on revenue and size of business with larger chains paying more than a single store operator getting by.

The high street is struggling a lot in my town in North Jersey USA. Half the store fronts are empty. The reasons are rates being too high, the town not supporting business by hosting market stalls on prime weekends and having limited parking which is very expensive. You can go to the mall and park for free. Our Main Street has been under construction for 3 years now. It's insane.

I think if councils want to keep local shops

"If" noted ...

they need to rebalance rates for bricks and mortar on high streets and up rates for warehouses that distribute goods bought over the internet.

that's a government thing, not local council. It can join the queue behind you-know-what....

When I was running DFs business - 20+ years ago, which wasn't a shop, but a motor repair business, we needed to make around £200 a week before the doors opened. That was around £3,000 rates, £3,000 insurance. standing changes on gas, electric, plus certified waste removal, plus maintenance for plant, and building.

(Not a penny on rent, or motgage as it was owned outright)

£200 a week is £33.33 a day - assuming a 6-day week.

I'll say it again, that was all before the doors opened. Then you had to factor in wages, stock, advertising dealing with guarantees (because if a part failed, the labour to replace it came out of our bottom line).

And then some clown would grumble about paying £5 to have their tyres checked and windscreen topped up. And to cap that, some of them would walk away accusing us of "ripping me off, man, you're just trying to make money out of people."

The more DF tried to get me to follow the family business, the less I wanted to. I may have had to endure redundancy a few times, but at least I'm not running a business 24/7.

As I moved away, the UBR started kicking in. Rates on the workshop were to rise to c. £10,000 over a few years.

High streets need to change.
They need to realise that online shopping is more convenient, can be cheaper etc

Internet shopping. as opposed to a shop that sells via the 'net, should be highly taxed, they destroy the heart of a community, cost jobs, particularly amongst women/young people, add to pollution and congestion as all these vans drive about dropping off parcels.

How can it be fair competition when a warehouse in Doncaster pays sod all business rates or rent but a high street shop pays many times more, despite adding to our sense of community?

In the case of Amazon, also avoid Corporation tax too!

Councils should also do more on car parking charges, the cost of parking in Plymouth 24/7 is damaging shops and restaurants.

Internet shopping. as opposed to a shop that sells via the 'net, should be highly taxed, they destroy the heart of a community, cost jobs, particularly amongst women/young people, add to pollution and congestion as all these vans drive about dropping off parcels.

The problem with that - as we have seen - is how do you chase that money ? Even the US is grappling with that problem, where companies simply move between states and fiddle the taxes. Loads of things may be a good idea. But if they can't be enforced - or if enforcement costs more than it will raise, you are stuffed.

You could pass a law making the consumer pay at purchase, and requiring the vendor to pass that money to the government. But how can you do that with overseas sales ? Because all that would happen is Amazon will route all sales as US sales via Amazon.com and ride off into the sunset waving two fingers to HMG (again). Unless we start insisting we tax US sales as well. And historically, the US doesn't take well to being told what to do. The EU might have a chance, but not a UK with not backup.

Like it or not, we're going to have to face the fact that we are part of a global community where every member has their own parochial problems, but where the solutions need global co-operation.

How can it be fair competition when a warehouse in Doncaster pays sod all business rates or rent but a high street shop pays many times more, despite adding to our sense of community

It isn't. But then life isn't fair anyway. I'm afraid.

Bear in mind for all this talk of "community", if we'd all carried on shopping at Arkwrights, there'd be no Amazon anyway. A little like our local post office, which was the scene of mass demonstrations when it was marked for closure despite records showing it was the least used one for miles. (Eventually it was relocated inside a store. Which is how I see a low of small shops surviving into the 2020s).