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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU benefits of marriage without marriage

369 replies

serbska · 30/08/2018 09:41

Yes another persona complaining LIFE ISN'T FAIR because they can't access a benefit for married people, because they weren't married.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-45348176/bereavement-allowance-widowed-mum-on-why-her-kids-are-penalised

If you want to be free and easy, stay as DPs. If you want the legal protection and benefits of married, get married. It costs a few quid down the registry office.

OP posts:
meditrina · 30/08/2018 11:27

"No one taught us this at school"

The legal status of different relationship choices is an obvious item to include in (already timetabled) SRE curriculum. I'm amazed it isn't, given that the subject already has to be provided.

HesterShaw1 · 30/08/2018 11:28

I like the word marridge.

DontCallMeCharlotte · 30/08/2018 11:29

There is still a Window's Bereavement Payment which would be worth having.

Did you see the reason they weren't married? Very sad but made me very cross.

RuggerHug · 30/08/2018 11:30

I just saw this in the news and came straight here to see the reactions. I think it will open a floodgate of sorts. Support for the 2 dependant children is obviously fine but widows pension is for..well...widows. If you can't be bothered getting the protection in place at any point over 24 years, either through marriage or insurance that will pay out instead, then why should everyone who does have to support you?
Before I'm jumped on, I said obviously the dependant children should be supported but not a grown adult once the kids are adults themselves.

sparklewater · 30/08/2018 11:33

Why do widows need that little bit of help any more than people who have been co-habiting for 20-odd years?

Such a strange, old-fashioned approach.

Santaclarita · 30/08/2018 11:37

Well if you want the benefits of marriage, get married. Doesn't have to be done expensively.

I've told my partner I refuse to have kids together until we are married. I want the protection if he suddenly leaves me for any reason. It's easiest that way.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 30/08/2018 11:40

If we could have civil partnerships for straight couples in the way that they do in many European countries, this wouldn't be a problem.

Doubtful.

Straight CP is rather a minority concern. Also in my experience, people who understand enough about marriage to object to it and also to want an alternative institution even if they do a bad job at understanding the dodgy history of CP tend to be more likely to understand what their position is as unmarried couples, and to have made at least some provisions. That's a generalisation, but it holds good a lot of the time.

The problem is people who don't know what the law is, or occasionally who do but CBA. People who think they'll be protected because they're common law, or marriage is just a piece of paper, or they don't need the state to recognise their love, or it's too much hassle. Straight CP would also be a piece of paper, would be from the same state that recognises marriage and would be the same procedure to book and attend. So they wouldn't do it.

Looking at the couple in this circumstances, she was very shocked to find she wouldn't be entitled to bereavement benefits. She'd evidently either assumed she would be, or not thought about it at all. Had a straight CP been available to her and her late partner, it wouldn't have solved either of those problems.

It's an interesting decision though. I wonder if the law will now change? The decision itself doesn't actually do anything for now. People were speculating about the benefit eventually changing to be attached to a particular child and going 'with' them, rather than being related to the dead person's NI contributions. But unless and until this happens, unmarried parents need to either marry if this benefit is important to them or make alternative provisions until they can guarantee it would be available.

BewareOfDragons · 30/08/2018 11:40

It's strange they aren't bothering to mention that if your spouse died after April 2017 you don't get Widowed Parents Allowance as they scrapped it

Appalling, isn't it. apparently, the stated Tory belief when they scrapped it was that the children 'should get used to their new circumstances', ie, lose their parent AND scrape by as punishment.

And yet people keep voting for them.

NailsNeedDoing · 30/08/2018 11:41

then why should everyone who does have to support you?

They don't. It's paid out of NI contributions that the deceased made in their life time, and it's calculated on how much they paid in. As they will no longer be around to claim their state pension, it seems fair to me that their children should get some of it instead.

OpalTree · 30/08/2018 11:41

Before I'm jumped on, I said obviously the dependant children should be supported but not a grown adult once the kids are adults themselves
Widowed Parents Allowance was paid for the children until they were 18. Since they got rid of it last year you only get it for 18 months after the death

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 30/08/2018 11:42

What was the reason they weren't married don'tcallmecharlotte?

RuggerHug · 30/08/2018 11:48

NailsNeedDoing thanks, I wasn't aware that was how it was calculated. I probably should have said it my reply that I'm not in the UK so could well have misunderstood some of it🙈

specialsubject · 30/08/2018 11:50

sad story - and glad she has the decision overturned.

but once you have kids (or even before), spend 20 mins in the registry office. Doesn't need a ghastly white frock, dead flowers, horrible hairdo or all the other rubbish. It is a simple legal protection that any couple can have assuming they aren't already married to someone else. Let's face it, if you have kids you are tied anyway.

Straight CPs would be nice as it would mean not having to do the cringey vows bit - but it isn't that bad.

DontCallMeCharlotte · 30/08/2018 11:54

It's because his first wife had died and she (the first wife) had asked him not to re-marry.

CrochetBelle · 30/08/2018 11:55

I can understand the line between being married/not and receiving these payments.

"The purpose of the allowance is to diminish the financial loss caused to families with children by the death of a parent.
"That loss is the same whether or not the parents are married or in a civil partnership with one another."

The Government would not pick up the small amount of maintenance paid by my ex husband for our two children if he were to die before they reach 18. Why are they less likely to be affected by the financial loss?

specialsubject · 30/08/2018 11:57

be aware that the BBC are featuring two different cases of this today.

ThanksItHasPockets · 30/08/2018 11:58

Straight CPs would be nice as it would mean not having to do the cringey vows bit - but it isn't that bad.

The bare minimum, legally required, vows really aren’t cringey. The only words which must be spoken are the ‘declaratory words’ (“I do solemnly declare that I know not of any lawful impediment why I [name] may not be joined in matrimony to [name]”) and the ‘contracting words’ (“I call upon these persons here present, to witness that I [name] do take you [name] to be my lawful wedded wife / husband”). That’s it. Very matter-of-fact.

ThanksItHasPockets · 30/08/2018 12:01

PS I assumed that ‘marridge’ was the new ‘hamwidge’.

serbska · 30/08/2018 12:01

It's because his first wife had died and she (the first wife) had asked him not to re-marry

I don't think this is a 'good' reason to not get married. OK to have a long term relationship and father children, but not ok to marry? Right.

I am so surprised the ruling has been won at the high court.

This should apply to all children of the dead person, not just the children of the co-habituating couple. Bet there are plenty of children of earlier relationships that missed out on payments over the years...

OP posts:
mostdays · 30/08/2018 12:02

Yes another persona complaining LIFE ISN'T FAIR because they can't access a benefit for married people, because they weren't married.

Did you set out to come across as nasty?

It's a benefit for bereaved families. You are no less bereaved, and no less of a family, for not being married.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 30/08/2018 12:04

Thanks dontcallmecharlotte. And wow. Sad and annoying is an excellent description.

In some ways I respect John's fidelity to his late wife's wishes, but it was irresponsible to go on to have four children with a partner and leave her in a position where she was financially screwed in the event of bereavement. If not marriage, there are other ways they could've ensured either of them had extra income in the event of one dying, insurance policies. Siobhan has had an incredibly and avoidably difficult time since his death because of that (joint) decision.

It's also sad because one has to wonder whether his late wife would've maintained her view if she'd known any future partner and children of his would suffer because of it.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 30/08/2018 12:08

That’s not a “sad” reason; it’s a piece of illogical nonsense.
Fine to have a long term relationship which involves four kids, but as long as the magic piece of paper isn’t introduced he was respecting her memory?
Pfff Hmm

PrimalLass · 30/08/2018 12:09

It is disgraceful to say that because the parents were not married then the children should miss out on this financial support.

AintNoCista · 30/08/2018 12:16

Good point about single parents. If the ex partner dies and can no longer pay maintenance, no one picks up that tab

shoelaces · 30/08/2018 12:23

I'm waiting/hoping for civil partnership to be for straight couples. Marriage is a not my thing. But togetherness and commitment is what we both want.

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