AIBU to take my sd's phone during visits?

[Pawpatrolsucks]

My dh took his EW to court over access a few months, and won visits eoweekend. His EW gave their 8 year old daughter a phone so they can keep in touch while with us. The phone is full of games and if SD has the phone she doesn't interact with anyone. I now take the phone and SD knows if she wants to call her mum all she has to do is ask. Sd's mum has said the phone must be with her daughter at all times incase mum wants to call. AIBU to take the phone? SD has a lot of fun and doesn't ask for the phone while here, but if she has the phone she just plays games all the time. It feels like a bit of a power play.

The problem is all the two parents are in a power trip between them and asserting control forgetting their daughter and relationship with is stuck in the middle

Sd is 8. If exw needs to know anything about her welfare she can call or text your dh, and he can hand the phone over to speak to sd. Sd does not need the phone.

The ex needs to keep her nose out of what’s happening when the child is with you. She should not need to contact her daughter during that time. That is what her contact time is for?

If the child wants to call her mum then fine.

Ribenas idea is a good one.

It seems to me if a parent is contacting their children so much it’s all about their needs

I think you are getting a hard time here OP for no reason. The mother is being the most unreasonable by insisting an 8 year old has a phone on her at all times so that she can be in touch. While SD is with you and her Dad it is not necessary. I think your DH is possibly going to the extreme by switching it off while SD is with you though. Your compromise of putting it to one side, but being available should she need it, is by far the best option for all surely?

Does SD have the phone 24/7 at her Mums just on the off chance your DH might want to contact her?

Your house, your rules. I presume your SD's mother can ring the house if there was an emergency?

If you SD's mother starts to enforce rules at your house, it will encroach on your routines and your lives.

@cloudyapples
Sd is 8. If exw needs to know anything about her welfare she can call or text your dh, and he can hand the phone over to speak to sd. Sd does not need the phone.

This! My SS is 8 and is too young for a phone! Mum contacts through DH and asks to Facetime but SS hardly ever wants to speak to her. This is about the mother and not the sd. If sd wanted to contact her mum every 2 minutes she can ask dad.

To those who are saying that the mother and child do not need to be in contact on the EOW weekend visits - should the father therefore not have the right, or should it not be assumed, that he would call his daughter during the remaining twelve days when she is at her mother's home? Would it be ok if he does call his daughter during the twelve days they are apart that it would be up to the mother to 'hear' or 'not hear' the phone ringing, or allow her daughter to respond to messages or voicemails only periodically - and that the intervals would be determined by her?

I am interested to know if this father calls his daughter or is in touch by text, email, whatsapp, etc at all while she is at home with her mum. Maybe Pawpatrolsucks can answer this.

If he doesn't call, why doesn't he call?

If he doesn't call, and if therefore there isn't what you might call an ongoing friendly, parent-child relationship, but instead the relationship is strictly taking place within a short, intermittent two day timeframe, then maybe the child does not really feel she is in a place she can call home, with someone who has an ongoing relationship with her whom she can talk to easily, and is nervous.

Lots of people would not send their children even to a sleepover without means to contact home any time the child felt like it, or without means for the child to be contacted by the parent except via the sleepover parents. Lots of people would not send their child on a sleepover full stop.

Taking the phone sounds very much to me like a case of hostility between the father and mother that needs to be resolved. The father needs to acknowledge that the child is attached to her mother. The quality of the ex-partners' relationship is immaterial - you can't put the child in the middle of ongoing hostility.

For her part, the mother should facilitate the relationship between the child and her father by allowing the child to send and receive communications from her father when they are apart.

Paw Patrol does indeed suck - great username.

@mathanxiety
The child is 8- I don't know many 8 year olds with their own phone. And they are always in adult company. These adults have phones and therefore can communicate through the adults involved.

If 8 year old went to a sleepover the contact would be through the parent.

My SS rings his dad from his mums phone when he wants him, and vice versa. The annoyance at child not responding to texts immediately whilst at dads is very very controlling and unnecessary

My experience is completely different, Winchester. I know a lot of 8 year olds with their own phones. Some are restricted to incoming/outgoing calls/texts to specified numbers and are used to check in with parents when children walk from school or when they are out playing/at sports practice/sleeping over somewhere. Some are full-on, all-the-bells-and-whistles smartphones.

My own DCs had their own phones at 8. They used them at sleepovers and their friends had their own phones to use for sleepovers. My DCs are now aged 17 to 28 so it's been a long, long time since the first got her own phone and obv the earliest phones were very basic brick-type models with extremely limited functions.

My DCs also all (apart from DD1) had the experience of EOW visitation with their father. They used their phones to contact me while there, and I used their phones to contact them. It was agreed in mediation (required as part of the divorce process) that there could be unlimited contact - within reason - between both parents and all children.

The 'within reason' bit was sort of in the eye of the beholder, but it basically meant a few texts back and forth or one or two phone calls a day and a call to say goodnight was perfectly reasonable, and importantly this was permitted for both myself and my exH. Hence the phones, and if a parent used a home phone/landline to call, it would always be picked up or the call immediately returned, because it was recognised - or it was supposed to be recognised - that the children had the right to contact the other parent and the other parent had the right to contact the children even during the other parent's parenting time.

I say 'it was supposed to be recognised' because exH always saw contact between me and the DCs during his weekends as a slap in the face to him and he found ways to punish the DCs for contacting me.

This is why I am curious about whether the father ever calls the child when she is at the mother's house, why I am asking if he has that right, and whether he exercises it, or if he is content to go through a middleman who might or might not pick up a phone to facilitate a conversation and thus a relationship.

Although my exH took umbrage at contact between me and the DCs during his parenting time he rarely if ever got in contact with the DCs during the twelve days when they were with me, and the DCs interpreted the EOW visitation as lip service to the idea of a relationship on his part at best, and at worst - when the punishment for contacting me was taken into account - as a game of keepaway on his part; they felt he was only interested in the visitation because it meant he was being accorded his legal rights and keeping them away from me for two days out of every fourteen.

I am interested to know if the father is in regular contact with his daughter when she is with her mother and if so how this is arranged.

He rarely calls his dd because he isn't allowed to. He occasionally gets her on her phone but usually just gets hung up.
SD is here today as there is no school, dh got a prepaid SIM in an old phone, SD sent her mum a text saying she can be contacted on that number. I have left the phone where she can get it herself and said she can use when she likes doesn't need to ask. I haven't seen her touch the phone once.

I think you have been more than reasonable!

I think if this is to be about the relationship with the daughter, Pawpatrolsucks, and not an exercise in point scoring between the parents with the child getting caught in the middle, then he needs to approach the court again and ask for the right to talk freely to his daughter during the twelve intervening days between visits.

Regardless of how well or badly the parents get on, the child needs to be able to develop and maintain a relationship with them both, unless one or both parents are abusive.

If your H is interested in a relationship as opposed to his legal rights to X amount of time, then he needs to secure the right to contact his daughter, and this phone might be a very useful as a way to do that without the risk of getting hung up on, or his calls ignored, etc.

So I suggest you stop taking the phone away from the DD and that your H instead uses the fact that it has appeared to make a case for more direct phone contact than he is currently allowed. No court is going to refuse a reasonable amount of freely available, casual contact with a parent over twelve days when a child is with the other parent. The court has already sided with him on the question of weekend visitation.

Your H could call or text to ask his DD how her day went at school or to say goodnight. They could text jokes or send photos of interesting stuff to each other. These are the little things they might do if they were all still living together, the little things that build a relationship, and it would be a huge pity if your H chooses not to press this matter - his DD will lose out on an easygoing, loving relationship with her father if he doesn't make an effort on this.

If your H is interested in developing a relationship with DD then he should do this.

• All of this is with the caveat that your H is not an abusive man who would damage a child if a relationship was allowed.

We have been to court, and unfortunately should have thought of phone contact at the time but didn't. If it was point scoring it would be much easier to say no phone contact, rather than find away for easy contact without the constant screen time. SD having the phone on her at all times is not going to happen, she is just too distracted by it.
It would be fantastic if dh could contact SD, but don't think exw would allow it even if there was a court order. Exw is very anxious about SD having a relationship her dad, and the less control she has over the situation the harder it is. Part of the phone issue is the ability to track SD, I don't think SD is allowed to have the phone much at home. SD has a student free day and was meant to be in holiday care today, but dh took the day off and picked her up early. This is going to cause a huge shit fight tonight, because dh hasn't done as he was told.

I'm really shocked by some of these responses. Of course no 8yo should have unlimited access to a mobile phone!

@PurpleMac
I'm with you. I'm really quite shocked- especially a bloody smart phone! 8 ffs!
@mathanxiety this isn't about anything other than control on the mothers part. An 8 year old does not need a phone.

it basically meant a few texts back and forth or one or two phone calls a day and a call to say goodnight was perfectly reasonable

I find this bizarre. My daughter recently had a three-week overseas trip with her father while I stayed at home--we did Skype every few days, basically! My daughter is also 8.

The OP's stepchild does not need constant phone access, and being tethered to a phone typically increases anxiety for both children and parents--is this really where society is headed?

Take the phone off her, OP.

Incidentally, I cannot think of anything more bloody exhausting than having to CONSTANTLY say "No, you can't play games yet" "No, it's not the time when you can play games" all bloody day long. And that's what it will be, basically. It's like a child going around with an enormous bag of sweets permanently at their elbow but the (step) parent is expected to constantly say "no" and ensure that they are not eating them.

You should go back to court and detail incidents where DH tried to contact DD by phone but was denied access, and petition for the right to contact her directly and daily. Twelve days is a long time to go between visits, and if I have read correctly, you say DH went to court to get a visitation schedule in place because this was being messed with. It is important in the context of the relationship to be able to chat (or Skype) together, and twelve days is too long to go without speaking. If exW doesn't allow it even with a court order then there are consequences for that including being held in contempt of court, and that should be made clear to exW.

I am still concerned about the point scoring element of this, however - if the relationship with the DD really is the primary focus of DH's approach to the court then he should have considered phone contact. It is very odd that he is prepared to go twelve days without any contact at all with DD while at the same time claiming that weekend visitation is in the interests of a good relationship with her.

Also, what is this all about?
SD has a student free day and was meant to be in holiday care today, but dh took the day off and picked her up early. This is going to cause a huge shit fight tonight, because dh hasn't done as he was told.
DH arrived on the doorstep and took DD off with him even though holiday care had been arranged?
Or DH arrived at the end of holiday care and picked her up for a few hours?
Was any of this discussed beforehand with the exW?
Had this care been paid for? If yes, by whom?
Had DD been told she was going to holiday care?
Was she surprised to see her dad on the doorstep?
Was the mother surprised to see the dad on the doorstep?
Is this sort of stunt allowed under the terms of the visitation arrangement that the court signed off on?
Was this a scheduled day for DD to be with her father?

If this was something your H decided to do without consultation and outside of the court-ordered physical contact days, then I am sorry to say it, but your H is not a nice man and I do not blame the exW one bit for her worries about letting DD off with him.

If your H wants more days, or a more detailed schedule of contact, then he needs to approach the court and hammer out a detailed arrangement covering 365 days a year and 366 in leap years. He can't just rock up and whisk DD away when it pleases him to do so. There is a court ordered schedule in place and he has to observe it.

Sorry, but if the mother decides to take him to court over this he won't have a leg to stand on.

This is not a matter of DH not "doing as he was told" . It is a matter of DH being incredibly heavy handed and in contravention of a court ordered schedule of contact.

Many 8 year olds have phones, Winchester.

Yes it's exactly what it's like, constantly telling her to stop playing games!!
This is dhs weekend, and it usually starts Friday night after school, or after school care. This Friday was a student free day, dh offered to pick SD up in the morning from exw but exw said no. Exw put SD in holiday care at school for the day and told dh he can pick her up in the afternoon. Dh took the day off work and picked SD up in the morning to spend more time with her. So dh got shouted at because dh wanted to spend a bit more time with his daughter. SD is having a great time and hasn't asked for her phone once, she called her mum last night with the other phone to say good night. Not exactly sure what exw can take him to court over, but if she does lots of things will be addressed!!

His ex seems a bit clingy tbh, she needs to loosen the cotton wool. She’s eight, not a baby. I’ve never called my DC while they’ve been at their dad’s. They don’t go for very long so I don’t see the need.

At 8 screen time should be limited. You'll have negative comments because the step parent always does on here but I think you are doing the right thing

This all smacks of your SD's mother thinking that she's the "proper" parent and your DH doesn't really have any status as a parent in her eyes, which is why she wants to be able to text constantly.

Personally I agree with the phone off. As long as SD knows and is allowed to message mum when she wants to tatbis fine.

There is no reason for ex to call sd while she has contact at her Dad's. If there is some.kind of emergency etc ex can call Dad not sd.

The only one trying to be controlling is the ex.

I am amazed that anyone would have an 8 year old with a smart phone that they kept with them constantly.I guess if it got lost or broken the DH would be responsible!
I think the sim/old phone so that dad and her DM can be in contact is a good compromise and if she cannot see that then that is her issue.
As a separate thing our kids have too much access to their screens,dome good some less so but allowing our kids to be glued to them and block out real life is bad patenting.
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