The childminder across the street

[NoodleEatingPoodle]

We moved in six months ago to a lovely quiet street with friendly neighbours. One of the neighbours is a childminder who cares for two children after school and all day during school holidays. The two children are close in age to my daughter (9), and the three of them have become fast friends. They play out together when the weather is good, sometimes in the childminders garden, sometimes in ours, or riding bikes / playing football in the road, etc.

DH and I have complementary working hours, so we don't need childcare. One of us works office hours, the other evenings and weekends, some flexibility around working from home etc.

We have never, ever asked the childminder to take care of our daughter. But more and more, she is being invited in with her two friends to bake cookies, or watch a movie, or she's invited to walk to the nearby park with them (and minder), etc. Some days she is in the neighbour's house for three hours or more, sometimes she comes home saying she's had her dinner! Just to note, she also has trips out or to meet other friends with whichever of us is home. It's not that we do nothing with her, but lately during what would be 'down time' at home, instead of reading or watching TV or whatever, she's off over the road. Her friends do also sometimes briefly come to our house, but the childminder understandably doesn't like them to be here for too long because the parents don't know us and she's being paid to look after them.

But she isn't being paid to look after our dd, and on days (like today) when she has three kids instead of two inside her house for hours on end, I wonder if we're being unreasonable to let it happen. It's always a case of the two friends calling for dd, presumably with the minder's permission. It's not that dd goes over and asks to join in. And when the two kids call, DH or I go across to the minder and do the whole 'are you sure? We don't want to take advantage' thing and she tells us it's fine, they all play together and dd is no trouble. The two kids that our neighbour minds are siblings, and they often squabble like siblings do. The dynamic when there are three of them (with my dd in the mix) does seem more harmonious.

She is a lovely, warm woman who has raised 4 kids of her own (all now young adults) and we have no problem with dd being close to her or spending time in her house etc.

So... Is this a case of: the childminder is happy (and could always say no if she's not), the mindees are happy to have a friend on the road and someone other than each other to play with, and dd is happy to have other kids to play with, so there's no problem?

Or are we being massively unreasonable and taking advantage of our neighbour by letting her regularly (a couple of times a week at least) provide free childcare (that we don't need!) for a third child, when she's being paid to mind two?

If it's not massively unreasonable of us to let dd go to the neighbour's when she's invited, how can we acknowledge that we appreciate the neighbour including her with the other kids, baking cookies with her, taking her to the park...? Is it a bottle of wine/box of chocolates situation? A present at Christmas?

Thanks

I think it probably makes her life much easier having your DD there to change the dynamic between the two siblings so she's probably grateful. I'd say she'd love some wine and chocs though just to show you appreciate the fact that she's so welcoming to your DD. I also think that the other girls' parents would probably be delighted to know their children are happily playing with another child and having a great time at their childminders.

When I was a child, a neighbour used to mind me and my brother after school until my mother came home from work at 5.30. She refused payment.
My mother was a farmers daughter and used to give her regular eggs and chickens! That went down well.

The kids are happy, the minder says it's fine; presumably she tells the parents about the kids' day, and this would include playing with your child. It's not like these kids are toddlers! Honestly, there is absolutely no problem here.

Like yours. my kids grew up in an area with loads of friends around to "play out" with and parents who all knew each other. My sons would sometimes get their tea at other places and kids would often turn up at our house unannounced, and I'd feed them if we were eating. It was a lovely, safe and happy environment to grow up in, the kids had loads of trusted adults around, and the kids (and adults) are all still good friends 10 years on. Flowers/wine/chocolate nice but not necessary imo.

I think the two sisters get on much better with your daughter there and that's why your DD is made so welcome. You've checked it out because you're not a CF. If the parents have an issue with it, they can raise it. My only concern would be to be clear with DD that she has a choice to go or not go, and that there will be times you have other plans.

The children are in their own home and they're having friends over.

Childminders look after children in their own home, not the childrens.

Can't they play in your house sometimes? Presumably you know the parents?

Op has said the parents don't know them. Parents are paying the childminder to look acts their kids, she's the one that's been inspected etc so it's not really appropriate for them to be spending time in a 'strangers' house without the childminder.

Totally agree that going to others houses for tea etc can be a lovely part of people's childhood, but this is not the same. Childminders by nature are kind and therefore sometimes lend themselves to being taken advantage of. Its happened to me and nearly every cm I know, so I don't buy that she definitely would have said something if unhappy. The only way my child would be spending more than 5 mins in a working childminders house is if I was paying, and we had in place the appropriate paperwork (medical info, contact details etc). I meet up with childminder friends with my own children but I wouldn't ever just leave my child with them unpaid during working hours.
You sound like a nice person and I'm not deliberately trying to disagree with You, but you did ask for opinions.

Think of it as the childminder is outsourcing the care to your DD and then she owes your DD money!

It can often be easier to change the dynamics of siblings as pp's have said, so you all benefit. Give her wine/flowers/cake/chocolate at suitable intervals.

Question is, do the parents know it's happening? They might be fine with it, or they might feel that they are paying for their 2 DC to have the attention of an adult and if her attention is also focused on a 3rd DC who they haven't factored in,bother own children are getting a raw deal. So actually Inwould speak to the parents about it - just in a low key and relaxed way,not make sure they know what's happening and are happy about it - I'd also check if they are happy for their kids to come into your house and if you'd want childminder to be there too. It may well be that the CM has already had these chats with parents, but I would just check. In all liklihood the parents are or will be fine with what's happening, but making eyes good communication and everyone knows what's going on is important - in the end it's for the parents to decide, not the childminder

this with bells on.

It's your neighbours food that your child is eating. They are paying for childcare when yours is getting it for free.

I would be turning my attention to the parents

Chips- no, it’s the childminder’s home!

Do some of you even know what a childminder is? Are you confusing it with a nanny?

Yes I was sorry.

It doesn't matter that the childcare is happening in the childminders house - the question of whether the parents are aware that the childminder they pay to look after their 2 children is also looking after another child at various points. It maybe that the parents are quite happy for this to happen...or not.....but they should have the chance to say if this is acceptable or not.

chocolate that’s not how childminding works. I have different amounts of children her each day. I don’t consult, nor should I, current parents when I take on more children. Most have no idea who I’ve got here especially during the holidays as everyone is so as hoc.

The childminder isn’t an employee of the family and they have no say over who she can take care of.

Okay, yes I see what you mean - but when I've had CM, they have always let me know if they have new children starting with them - one of the reasons why people might choose a certain CM is because of the no if children they look after - but I understand what you're saying, that you don't employ the CM.

What about the CM letting the children go over to play at OP's house though - surely the parent should know about that. If I wee Op, I'd just be asking the CM if the parents were happy for the children to come over.

Agree about the mindees going to OPs house and it’s not something I would do at all. I feel mean being stricter with mindees than I would my own dc but that’s just how it has to be.

And I do inform parents of new children starting, but I don’t ask them. What if they said no?

Can only imagine the girls involved would have shared what's happening with their parents.

I've been a childminder for over 20 yrs now and, numbers permitting, have always been happy to have other children over too. One of the things about going to a childminder is that often you can't invite your friends over like you would at home so I've always been happy to facilitate this whenever possible.

Over 8s are allowed to play in the cul de sac with friends with permission from their parents. Parents have always been happy that the children's friends can have dinner with us or do activities with us, no-one has ever said "it's not fair I pay and she doesn't"

It sounds like a lovely set up, I'm sure the minder has already checked with parents so just enjoy it.

I'm sure the children have mentioned to their parents that they play with your daughter. It sounds like the 3 of them get on well and enjoy playing together. The CM sounds lovely.
She can also look after as many children as she wants at any time as long as she stays within ratio. That's not something she need discuss with any parent at all. If a parent eants a particular ratio of care for their child they need to employ a nanny not send them to a childminder. Most parents using childmindees like the fact that they mix with other children.
It doubds lije the children have all had a fun summer. I'm sure a little gift to show that your daughter has enjoyed playing there and appreciates being invited would be a thoughtful gesture.

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies! I thought this thread had died last night and didn't even check it today, so apologies for not coming back before now.

For clarity it's the childminder who is our neighbour and she minds the other two kids in her own house. Dd is in the home or garden of / eating the food of a nice woman in her neighbourhood who has invited her in and offered her dinner... We're not cheeky enough to send her into the house of people who don't know she's there and haven't invited her !

I do understand what some are saying about whether the mindees' parents would be happy with a different ratio, etc... But my concern is about whether we're being fair to the childminder, and about what would be an appropriate gesture of thanks for the kindness and hospitality she's shown dd. We don't have any relationship with the parents and certainly don't think we're wronging them in any way. Like I said, dh or I are home at these times, across the road from the childminder's house, checking in periodically, with the front door open so dd and her friends can come and go. We're not sending dd to use a service paid for by the other kids' parents, we're not looking for free childcare; we are home and available to dd for whatever she needs. She is there as a neighbour child, not a mindee; she can be sent home at any time (or not invited in the first place!) and has a parent thirty feet away in case of any problem or emergency.

I fully understand the point about how the parents might feel about the kids coming into our house. If this happens it's very brief... Like one of the kids running in with dd to find her football, or coming in to the kitchen from the garden to ask for a glass of water. I might not like this if I were the parents (though we are decent sorts, I know they don't know that) but the way I see it, the childminder is in charge of the mindees when they're at her house and she's using her judgement about whether they can be in our garden (which she has full view of) or briefly in and out of the house. I have absolutely no intention of talking to them about it (and inserting myself potentially harmfully into their relationship with their childminder / our lovely neighbour). If they are unhappy with (or unaware of) decisions the childminder makes, that is between them and her. I'm not going to forbid the kids to come in from water when the adult in charge of them says they can, and I'm not going to have a quiet word with the parents about whether their childminder has made them aware that this sometimes happens. They trust her to mind the children, she minds them as she sees fit, and that's all between them and none of my business. There is no risk to the children so I am not getting involved... I would speak to the parents if I had concerns for the children's wellbeing, but I don't.

Sincere thanks for all of the views, they have helped me to think the situation through and clarify my own thinking on it. We're going to continue to take our neighbour at her word when she says dd is very welcome, and we'll make sure to make a small gesture (card, bottle, chocolate) this week, and give her something more substantial (maybe a restaurant voucher or similar) at Christmas.

If she’s sending the children over to call for your dd then likely she’s glad of having her there to entertain them.
As I parent I’d be happy they’d found a little friend their age rather than worrying about the adult:child ratio at their age.
I wouldn’t suggest going for a ‘play date’ as has been suggested. They’re too old for one and I doubt the Cm would be allowed to leave her charges unsupervised with an adult without a DBS so it would probably make life’s more difficult.

I am not a childminder but I am a SAHM and have an open door policy towards kids during the holidays, after school etc. Sometimes they are here all day, as its just as easy to feed them.as well as mine. But I always run it by the parents first in case they were planning something.

I think its lovely that the childminder can replicate a 'home type' situation where her mindee's can have a playmate over. I am shocked that some of the parents have said they would not be happy, and would expect the childminders the clear it with them. Really?

I do believe that sometimes a calm child can change the dynamic (providing there is no jealousy) and it can have a positive effect on petty bickering.

I think the situation sounds like it benefits all - especially the children. You are right to ask her about, nobody likes to feel rakens advantage but I don't think that the case here. Your plan to take over a bottle of wine/chocolates etc. Is a good one - though, I suspect the children would prefer a slime making kit.