Requesting Monday as a non working day and Friday working from home?

[lisloom]

Looking to go part time after baby is born however would love to have a Monday off, and work from home on a Friday, working Tues-Thurs in between. I work in a fairly big office and already work from home every other Friday so it's not as though there's no resilience (it's never been an issue). It would help hugely and means I would be able to visit my family more regularly who live the other side of the country, whilst also doing school run round the corner for DSD on the Friday (this is really important!).

If you were a manager, and your member of staff asked to work compressed/part time hours, Tues to Thurs full time and half a day on a Friday from home, would you think they were trying their luck?

I'm nervous to ask and feel like they're going to tell me to sod off and take time off on say a Tuesday/Wednesday, which would make our lives really difficult.

Trying to do what's best for family/finances etc. DP has already dropped as many hours as he can to do school runs for his DD (he just can't do it on a friday). This childcare malarkey is so tough!

whilst also doing school run round the corner for DSD on the Friday (this is really important!).

Is your DP going to ask for amended hours to look after his own child as well op?

Why should you be the only one to put your neck on the line with your employers?

It is a very reasonable request and in my company it would be granted in less than the length of time it's taken me to read the thread (including the repeated questions about Friday!). I have granted many similar requests. However my company is large and flexible working is one of the cornerstones of our HR policies. So in answer to your question, is it reasonable? Yes. Will it be granted? That depends on your company's approach to flexible working. Should you ask? Yes, absolutely. I think things to cover in your request are setting out clearly the overall percentage that you will be, ie still 80%; the fact that you have childcare in place and the fact that you don't believe it will impact on your co-workers. Good luck!

@Eliza9917 DP has already done this. He has reduced his hours significantly so he can do after school pick ups. His pay is then reduced as well as his pension etc etc. I am his partner and care a huge deal about his daughter so doing a school drop off once every other week really isn't a big deal to me when I can work from home and it would be a lot more bother for him to do it.

Not all dads depend solely on their partners to do all the work!

Thank you @Blingygolightly ! Fingers crossed!

It’s a reasonable request. I would be a little reluctant because my experience of people having work from home days that adjoin days off is that they are more likely to be less available (sneak off early or worse and end up finishing work over the weekend etc.) and team communication and productivity suffers. You mention you’ve already been working from home on a Friday though, so if you have a history of working from home productively that would ease that concern, especially since you are already talking about working fewer hours that day so that you would already have finished by the time you were ready to travel for the weekend.

Compressed hours can be a concern, depending on the work. I would be a little concerned about the amount of face time with other team members, especially with a day working from home. This can be very job and office specific though, as is the need for office cover. Generally compressed hours tend to be less productive, so I’m not a great fan, but none of that would be sufficient to stop me granting the request with a caveat that productivity needed to be maintained.

Do be make sure you understand the situation with your holiday’s though. I would expect them to work it out according to the hours you take rather than counting full days. So if you were working a 35 hour week (and 35 hours was standard full time for your company) as 10 hour days on Tu - Thu and 5 hours on Friday, I would expect taking a Tues day off would count as approx 1.4 days of holiday time and taking a friday would be approx 0.7 days of holiday time. So taking Tu-Fr off would add up to 5 days of holiday time giving you a full week without work, just as it would if you were working regular hours, but you have to be careful about how many days you take off that are actually the longer days, compared to the shorter ones. And Bank holidays should give you 8 hours of holiday time rather than a day of your compressed hours, so taking a Tuesday in lieu would mean losing more hours, but taking a Friday would mean gaining a few. I can see why it wouldnt be a deal breaker, but you need to make sure you and your HR understand how they calculate everything so you don’t end up surprised.

It is a very reasonable request and in my company it would be granted in less than the length of time it's taken me to read the thread

It is indeed a reasonable request, but it also depends on how many other people are doing the same for the much favoured Friday & Monday "Long Weekend" working hours.

At the end of the day, if it doesn't work for the business then it doesn't happen.....

I do 3 days so I don’t think you’re requesting anything totally out there but it does depend on the nature of your role. I tend to do work on my non working days so in effect I do your 1/2 day but unpaid.

The thing that I would be less keen on is compressed hours at 10 hours a day. It’s not outrageous but compressed hours seems to be the thing that pisses off other employees. I’ve been in teams where people did a 9 day fortnight and everyone they didn’t have that flexible arrangement really resented it as they often did the same or more additional hours with no time off.

Slarti, err did you read the remainder of my post? I went on to caveat that at my company flexible working is a cornerstone of our HR policies. Then said whether the request would be granted at OP's company would depend on their approach. By inference that included taking into account how many people are working in a similar way. The reason why I said my company is large is that quite frankly many people could ask to work that way and it would all be granted. We don't have a "who was lucky enough to ask first policy" approach to dealing with flexible working requests. Many companies are not that flexible. Only OP can judge her company's flexibility but she can only ask and put her best foot forward in her request.

It depends on what cover there was in the office on Mondays and Fridays. What the schedule of work is like eg is the beginning of the week usually busier after a weekend? What working patterns other people have to ensure that there is adequate staffing in the office

@user1471426142 really strange the amount of resentment that builds up. We have people working so many different variations. Nobody resents each other. I don't think I've ever heard a bad word to be honest. We all work really hard, and if your home life allows for it, you can apply for a flexible working arrangement. Why do people choose to be resentful rather than just applying for flexible working themselves?

I agree that there's a lot of resentment on this thread. Lots of people seem keen to suggest that the request is unreasonable, or OP won't pull her weight and company will lose out or they will say no.

I wonder if this resentment comes from people who work full time so who are a bit jealous of part time work or from people who work in the kind of job where flexible working isn't possible or encouraged and where they can't imagine how it would actually work.

In lots of professional jobs, people get on with their work and their work has little direct impact on others who work in the same organisation. A high level of trust is put in workers because they are ...professionals....and not looking to skive and do less than they are paid for or the bare minimum. Employers know that often workers are more productive at home, outside the distractions of the office, that allowing flexible working means they can keep good employees and that these days it is encouraged. Therefore in many organisations that deal with professional employees the immediate thought won't be to look for reasons why it shouldn't happen, but to focus on the positives and unless there really is a strong reasons to say no, these employers will say yes......and not with the expectation that they will then 'catch out' op and show her to be skiving and end the arrangement.

In response to OP's question, I might ask, why a rent more people making such requests - both parents and those who aren't parents? Part time work might not be affordable for many, but flexible working and compressed hours can improve quality of life for lots of full timers too. I recognise that there are jobs which are customer facing or which require lots of interaction between employees or jobs where employees need lots of supervision or the hours of business mean flexibility is less possible....but I think more people should consider asking and be more open to the fact that those who have got flexible arrangements aren't skiving off work, but often are still working far in excess of their prescribed hours - because when you're in a professional role, you really have to keep working until the job is done.

Lisloom- I don’t know what it is really. People seem to forget that part-timers don’t get paid for the days they are not there. I think the issue more specifically with a 9 day fortnight is the extra time worked isn’t really that much per day. In general I think most people would be far happier if flexibility was accepted but in so many places there is a culture where long hours= success. I have found being part time the juggling can be really tricky but i hope I still add value.

Why do people choose to be resentful rather than just applying for flexible working themselves?

Because some people are obsessed with the idea of someone else getting what they perceive to be a "better deal" than they have and rather than ask for it they whinge to all and sundry. Just ignore it as far as you can.

The viability of the model you are seeking will depend on the nature of your role and the business. Obviously you know best if it works in your role. However its not unreasonable to ask, especially as comparable arrangements already work with others.

I am gobsmacked at people wanting evidence of your child care arrangements. Is this question routinely asked of men with children? If not its discriminatory.

Its really simple - as a manager the job is to manage. Most of these arrangements will be subject to review after a fixed period to ensure it works for everyone. Any semi competent manager will rapidly spot if productivity (per unit of time) has gone down as a result of the change. If they can't do that without asking intrusive and potentially discriminatory questions they shouldn't be managers.

I went on to caveat that at my company flexible working is a cornerstone of our HR policies.

Did you read my post?

It is in mine, many of my staff are on flexible working.

Bit it wouldn't be possible for them all to have the same days off - which is all I said.

And to be honest, "First come, first served" is the fairest way to do it....

"I am gobsmacked at people wanting evidence of your child care arrangements. Is this question routinely asked of men with children? If not its discriminatory".

I ask this question every time regardless of the sex of the employee. It's not an unreasonable question, especially if you've been told (as is the case here) that one of the employees aims is to facilitate a school run.

That sounds reasonable to me. You have childcare in place on your wfh day. I am part time and take Mondays - most part timers either take Monday or Friday's off.
I don't know if you are the same but we have our bank holidays pro rata'd into hours. As most of them are on a Monday if that's one of your working days you end up having to use some if your annual leave to cover them. This might make a difference.

OP, the thread got really long and I ended up skimming.
You need to readf your organisation's policy and work from there. Best of luck.
I work for a Life balance family friendly organisation as if. They like bums on seats. It's so hard to get to work at home.
Fair play if you get it.

Are they likely to accept you working 3x10 hour days in a row? I make that 9-8pm including a lunch hour. Is that aligned to hour offices operational hours?

Be aware though that if you have Monday as a non-working day you will probably not get any entitlement to bank holidays that fall on Mondays (leads to a bit of resentment on my part, that I work a comparative extra week this year compared to my colleagues) but small price to pay really

Slightly (very) off topic but I had no idea there were places where the bank holidays weren’t pro rata-ed for people who don’t work on Mondays. HR have always done that automatically wherever I’ve been. Seems really unfair.

I don’t think the Monday/Friday thing would be an issue based on the days. Compressed hours does annoy people who work full time and still do ten hours a day regularly but avoiding resentment isn’t a reason to refuse your request. As people love to say on MN, it’s not a race to the bottom...

So from your last post it sounds as though you want to go from your current arrangement of working 35 hours over 4.5 days to working 35 hours over 3.5 days. I'm not sure that I would agree to this as your manager, especially as you say you may also spread a bit of the 0.5 on a Friday to the other 3 days to cover for school run etc. My worry would be about your productivity as I this is likely to be lower when compressed into very long days. I think if you want Mondays off you should be prepared to go part time, e.g. reduce your hours to 29. I do think you are trying to have your cake and eat it, e.g. go part time but still have full time pay.

It is in mine, many of my staff are on flexible working. Bit it wouldn't be possible for them all to have the same days off - which is all I said.

Whereas in my team we are encouraged to all have the same p/t days so that we are there at the same time and can have meetings.

So from your last post it sounds as though you want to go from your current arrangement of working 35 hours over 4.5 days to working 35 hours over 3.5 days.

No she's said it is 42 to 35.

I just saw this on the BBC and thought of this thread. PwC tells new staff they can choose what hours to work

I ask this question [about childcare] every time regardless of the sex of the employee

The fact that you ask it of both sexes doesn't get an "out" from potential discrimination when the answer is overwhelmingly impacting one sex. Do you ask other staff about their arrangements for eg elder care or other external responsibilities or do you assume that as adults who know the work requirements they have this in place and would come to you if there was a problem? Why would childcare be treated differently?

I've never asked intrusive personal questions about family arrangements (I think another poster upthread wanted evidence of arrangements - I'd love to know how they justify demanding info about other adults and minors without their consent). I have always stressed to people that they shouldn't struggle in silence as short term changes are often possible to support temporary situations.

Longer term variation in work arrangements is always going to be reviewed by both sides after X weeks/months and continuance subject to success.

I assume adults working for me will behave like adults and trust that they will be supported when needed. Its very effective at retaining good staff in an area with a high attrition rate. I would not work for someone who demanded details of my personal arrangements when they should be judging my work outputs.

I agree that it is inappropriate to ask. If someone was applying for a part time job or a full time job from outside if the organisation it would not be acceptable to ask if they have children or if they have childcare arrangements in place. That is their affair and what those arrangements are have nothing to do with the workplace. When someone accepts a job initially, or when they ask for and accept flexible working terms, it is their responsibility to arrange their affairs so that they can get to work or do the work required in the job - their travel arrangements, marital situation, situation regarding children and any other dependants is their responsibility and work won't want to know about them and this stuff should not impact on whether flexible working is offered or not - the only thing at should influence it is if the person is capable of the work and how it affects the business.

Often an individual will offer family reasons as to why they want to adopt a new working practice - but the exact details of the childcare are not relevant. Can you imagine anyone ever asking candidates at interview these kind of questions;

• do you have childcare in place so you can get to work on time?
• what times is your childcare provider working, so I can be sure you will be at work on time and not leave until the end of the day?
• on the days you work at home, will you have office space to enable you to work?
• do you have an elderly relative living with you and will they prevent you getting to work?
• when you are working at home, will you have distractions such as loud music, pets running around, building work going on?

The workplace isn't interested and shouldn't be interested in people's arrangements which allow them to work. The only time they might be, is when short term issues arise which might mean work need to be a bit flexible - such as an emergency with an elderly relative or a child being sick or some other crisis - and then their interest would be short term.

People seem to suggest work should ask about childcare or even for evidence of it, because they suspect people are trying to skive - workplaces which allow flexible working don't make this assumption - they trust their workers to do the work they are paid for - yes, it will be monitored, but unless an issue arises where productivity is compromised, they won't be asking but trusting the worker to work and to have arrangements in place to allow them to.

I agree that compressed hours work when workers do set hours. If everyone works significantly more every day and that is the expectation, then compressed hours can seem unfair and to be giving someone a day off for the same pay as everyone else is getting for longer hours. It often works in the public sector where hours are specified, wages not particularly high and there not being an expectation for most workers that they work beyond their hours. It will always be more difficult to establish compressed hour working in businesses with a culture of very long hours .....another reason why cultures of ridiculous hours shouldn't be encouraged.