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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that my (upcoming) landlord should pay to put me in a hotel?

260 replies

RogelioMyBrogelio · 27/08/2018 08:32

I’m due to move into a flat next Monday, but unfortunately I’ve had a call today to say that the upstairs flat has had a burst pipe and my (soon to be) flat has significant damage to the ceiling, walls and electrics. An insurance assessor is coming tomorrow apparently, but my new (upcoming) landlord says I won’t be moving in next week by the looks of it. I’ve asked if she can put me up in a hotel until then, as my current tenancy ends next week too. She has said no as the new tenancy hasn’t started so she doesn’t have me covered on her insurance, and I also haven’t signed a contract (she did send me one but I was just gonna leave it until the day I moved in to sign it). I have given her a month’s deposit, which she has protected and is offering to send back to me today out her own pocket so I don’t have to claim, but what I really want is to be in that flat! a contract has been drawn up and dated 2 weeks ago so AIBU to think that the protections stipulated in that contract should apply to me (it says in the case of emergencies that the landlord will put the tenants up in a hotel)

OP posts:
cheesefield · 27/08/2018 10:24

Outrageous CFing OP. Congratulations 🏆

RolyRocks · 27/08/2018 10:26

LL wouldn’t be out of pocket as she could keep my deposit which is a month’s rent which gives her a month to find someone else so how is she out of pocket?!

The LL wouldn’t be able to keep the deposit for the sole reason of non payment of rent and would have to return it to you. They would have to take out a civil claim against you instead, to recoup the lost rent so yes, they would be out of pocket.

Good grief.

ButchyRestingFace · 27/08/2018 10:26

When did the flood occur, OP?

You wouldn’t happen to live in Glasgow, would you?

CanuckBC · 27/08/2018 10:31

Wow, just wow...

SparklyMagpie · 27/08/2018 10:31

You know what OP, go ahead and take her to a small claims court 😂

DuchessThingy · 27/08/2018 10:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NoSquirrels · 27/08/2018 10:38

You’re right, it might not be unusual to wait to sign the contract until close to moving in. But the point t is that means NEITHER PARTY IS BOUND BY A CONTRACT. You are vulnerable (to stuff like this) and the LL is vulnerable (to tenants like you changing their minds).

The deposit is a security deposit against damage occurring to the flat whilst you reside there. It’s not payment in advance (unless specified) and the LL can’t keep it if you don’t move in/don’t pay rent.

Being a LL is shit when tenants are arseholes. Ill-informed arseholes are the worst of all.

Please, educate yourself and then move on.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 27/08/2018 10:42

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-a-home/tenancy-agreements/#h-what-is-a-tenancy-agreement

Tenancy agreements do not have to be written. But in order to get specific rights via oral agreements can be difficult to prove. If your agreed start date is Monday do you have proof? Go to your local cab on Monday and get some advice. It is not the case that you have to have a signed tenancy to have rights a verbal agreement and a paid deposit is a contract. It is only that written agreements give you more defined and easy to prove terms and conditions. Good luck.

Glumglowworm · 27/08/2018 10:42

YABU and a CF

your LL would not have been able to keep your deposit if you decided to shaft her. So yes, your refusal to sign “to protect yourself” would have left her out of pocket

So you didn’t want to be bound by the contract but you expect her to be? That’s basically the gist. Bloody hypocrite!

Take your deposit back, stay where you are temporarily, look for somewhere new. And then take a long hard look at yourself and decide whether you want to continue life as a CF or whether you will turn over a new leaf and become a decent human being.

FupaGlory · 27/08/2018 10:44

You new landlord will be able to claim for loss of rent from their insurance company while repairs are ongoing. If the LL's policy provides alternative accommodation, they may house you/pay for your temporary housing. However, insurers will most definitely insist on a signed tenancy agreement ......which doesn't exist

You're on your own

glintandglide · 27/08/2018 10:52

Oh for goodness sake stop piling on. OP did nothing wrong by waiting to sign (if she’d Been made unemployed she wouldn’t have been able to pay the rent which obviously would’ve had far more impact on the new landlord than a unsigned contract)
Sadly, this means she’s lost out. But she is potentially going to be homeless, so a bit of sympathy rather than snipey bitchiness wouldn’t go amiss.

The only thing I would say though OP is there is no point continuously asking until you get the answer you want. You have no legal protection and no recourse. Sadly the law doesn’t protect you from bad luck, it’s just life.

ballseditupagain · 27/08/2018 10:52

@Glumglowworm is exactly right.

Given that she has insurance your landlord would probably prefer that you had signed he contract and the insurers paid for your alternative accommodation whilst you pay her rent. As things are she's not getting any rent. I'm not sure the insurers will recompense her for that.

Catanddogmake6 · 27/08/2018 10:56

Aside from anything else (and that’s a big aside) I think you are underestimating how long this could take to fix. Before we had a leak I had no idea. Tap joint dripped very slowly for no more than a couple of months resulted in six weeks of industrial dryers going for 24 hours and that’s before they chopped out the walls and had to put it all back. This could legitimately take months and months. Do you really even want to be in a hotel for months and months?

Twillow · 27/08/2018 10:56

You sign a contract to show you're willing to enter into a contract.
You weren't willing, you didn't sign, you don't have one.
God this is hard work...

dorisdog · 27/08/2018 10:59

Blimy! This is an illuminating thread. I'm not anti landlord - I have a few friends who are lucky enough to own second or even third properties. They also understand that they are having a huge investment paid off for them by their tennants. Investment that will increase in value and pay for their pensions, kids deposits etc. The odd financial hiccup along the way should be taken into consideration I reckon. Coming from a family where almost none can afford one mortgage, let alone multiple ones I find it astonishing. It's not often a mumsnet thread makes me fume, but I'm so cross that ppl don't even realise that not only do some ppl (like some of my family) not own even one house, but that they'll never be able to have a home or a pension!

Confusedbeetle · 27/08/2018 11:05

Goodness me I feel sorry for the landlord. She has a disaster, not of her making, is offering you a get out and return of your deposit, I am a landlord and would not be able to afford to put up a tenant in a hotel for an unspecified period. I feel sorry for you but you are unreasonable. Many landlords make very little money these days you will be surprised to hear. A replacement boiler or similar can wipe out a years income

bigmouthstrikesagain · 27/08/2018 11:08

Regardless of the op motivation for not signing the tenancy it is not true that signed written contract is required. The law in England does not require a signed tenancy agreement although a signed tenancy agreement will give you additional protection. In this situation the op may well need a signed contract to get put up in a hotel while the flat is repaired but it is not clear cut. The payment of rent, a verbal agreement all are valid contracts.

If you are an employee working set hours, being paid then you have legal protection - a written contract is required by law to be provided to you by your employer but not having one does not affect your legal rights as an employee. As a tenant a verbal agreement and a paid deposit is the basis of the contract. Your LL insurance may require a signed tenancy agreement however.

glintandglide · 27/08/2018 11:22

Bigmouth you’re taking a legal principle (that a contract doesn’t need to be signed to be implied) and Mis applying it. I agreee had the OP moved in and started paying rent it wouldn’t matter whether the contract was signed as she would be protected by statutory law under an assumed contract.

However, she had not moved in, was a week away from doing so, and had done nothing more than paid the deposit and made a verbal agreement- neither of which are an implied contract

Mariatequila · 27/08/2018 11:26

As far as where you legally stand; you may be able to claim costs in regards to extra rent at your current place/hotel costs all in excess of the rent you agreed. Whether a judge will agree with you I don’t know, I’ve seen some absolute CFs win in court with no evidence, just based on what the judge ‘felt’ was right. I suspect your chances of winning will also reduce when you get the deposit back. Morally, however, you should leave it.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 27/08/2018 11:28

I am saying that the op may not have any protection in her circumstances but that a tenancy does not have to be written to be valid. I am sorry if I was unclear or if you feel that my response is inappropriate.

TerfsUp · 27/08/2018 11:29

This thread reminded me to check on my own landlord's insurance policy. I thought I had let it lapse (bit of a tumultuous few months here at CasaTerf) but a quick call to the insurance company informs me that the policy was automatically renewed earlier this year.

specialsubject · 27/08/2018 11:29

the landlord would probably have been much happier if you had signed - the insurance would have covered the missing rent if you had decided to live elsewhere, or to house you while repairs were done (although you would probably have needed to pay rent). Now her void continues. That's not your problem or your cost.

if the insurance says 'no', that's it. You didn't sign for your own reasons. Took a risk, got bitten. Take the returned deposit and get house hunting.

the usual playground jealousy (not from the OP) about people who own more than one property is as always utterly irrelevant. Do you expect suppliers of food, clothing and medicine to work for free? Do you spew bile at mortgage providers?

IhatetheArchers · 27/08/2018 11:31

But the op hasn't paid any rent and don't see how they can depend on a verbal contract as a written contract exists.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 27/08/2018 11:33

I will just say that it is not clear cut and the op should get advice. Not anonymous online advice but expert advice. I am not an expert and no one on this thread can be held accountable for any advice they give the op.

glintandglide · 27/08/2018 11:35

A property lawyer has already commented. Tbh I think OP would be wasting her time spectacularly trying to get advice- people like CAB and shelter aren’t the magic bullet people make them out to be.