To go NC with "D"M (but not DF....)

[ScoobyCan]

My "D"M has form.

Several years ago I went for counselling (marriage very unsteady, never recovered, now nearly divorced). Psychotherapist asked what relationship was like with my mum. I said she reels me in, gets me close then spits me out with a venomous and rather spiteful conversation / action / reaction (massive drama queen, amazing in a crisis, although will refer to any past support she has given as a "you wouldn't have got through that without ME"), so in general I keep my distance. We have a fairly good text relationship but spending time together doesn't work.

At the time, I discussed the conversation with my mother. She said yep, that's how it is, she acknowledged that it's the same way her mother treated her, that she hated it, however she told me she wasn't ever going to change. She hasn't. (For reference I have two sisters who she gets on with very well.)

On the other hand, I have an amazing relationship with my dad. In the main he and I see each other separate to my mother. I lived abroad for years and he would visit every six weeks. I adore him and respect him hugely. We have very matter of fact conversations, talk "shop", politics, share good reads, and he is an intelligent and supportive loving dad.

My mum is jealous of this and recently manifested a massive argument between us (she has done this before). When I said "I do not want to have this conversation now" (it was late evening), she threatened to hit me (I'm in my 30's). In order to defend my response to her argument, I asked my dad to confirm a conversation that he and I had had about four weeks prior.

To my utter dismay, he denied it.

He hasn't spoken to me since - I am distraught that my mother has managed to break the relationship between me and my dad. She will be rubbing her hands together with glee - see, when she was younger she "wasn't allowed to have a relationship" with her father as apparently her mother never let them.

AIBU to go NC with "D"M and try and salvage my relationship with my DF? I don't even know where or how to start the conversation with him. I just know that she hates me, and this won't ever change. She's even got my sisters rallying around her and defending her behaviour! I'm sick of the bloody drama. I'm going through a shit divorce, trying to manage my young DCs and juggle childcare and a job. I just don't need this.

So many times in the past my dad has said "just ignore her". I have wondered if in fact he denied his and my conversation because he just can't be bothered with the fall out. If he was 20 years younger I wouldn't blame him for leaving. (This entire last paragraph is pure speculation).

Sorry for the long rant. Just unsure what to do.

I'm sorry to hear this, it must be awful to feel like you've lost the support of your closest family member at a time like this.

When you say he's not spoken to you since, have you tried to reach out to him? I would perhaps invite him over and (if he comes) just act as normal and don't discuss the event where he didn't back you up unless he brings it up. I say this because if he's annoyed or sensitive around it, it may be best not to aggravate the situation and push him away any further. If he sees that you just want to get back to normal he may be more receptive to it.

If you think your life would be better/easier without your DM in it then by all means lower your contact, she doesn't sound like a positive influence at all!

Unfortunately, I think it’s unlikely you will succeed at NC with one, but not the other.

They sound like quite a ‘tight’ unit, which is how a married couple should be, I suppose.

I’m in a similar situation myself, and ended up going NC with both for a while. I reasoned that although my Dad had been a good Dad, so I thought, he should have stepped up and put a stop to my mother’s treatment. Don’t you feel the same?

Sadly, your DF is part of the problem too. For whatever reasons he has to date and is still prioritising his relationship with your mother over his relationship with you, and is likely to continue to do so.

You might get good advice from the “stately homes” threads in relationships.

Thank you so much for your responses - it's a frustrating and tricky situation, and I didn't want to scrimp on the detail in order to present a full picture.

Sadly I do think you're right: my DF's loyalty - quite rightly - is with my mother. The morning after he gave me a hug and said "let's talk when we are home". I respected this. She took it upon herself to have yet another dig that morning, in front of my sisters but not my dad, which I did not respond to. She has since phoned many times - I've generally ignored these calls as I've nothing to say to her. She more recently reneged on her offer of childcare (and instead spent several days with my sisters and their DC) so I just took them to work with me - to be perfectly honest given the current state of relations, I don't trust her with them.

With the summer holidays it has therefore been hard to make that call to my dad - perhaps once term starts next month I'll have more of a chance to spend some time with him alone. He may well not want to talk about it which I would understand - I just want it to go back to normal. As you say - it's not the easiest period of my life, and in addition to be having such family tensions so high it's tough.

Low contact sounds like a plan. What's the stately homes thread?!!

@whateveryousay - and yes. I am really disappointed that he didn't have my back / stand up to her outrageous behaviour. As I said though - to be honest I can't blame him. He has to live with her..... I can't normally manage more than three hours.

I feel for you, op.

I had the same, narcissist mother, but got on well with my Dad.
Then she weighed him down so much he turned against me in the end.
So I went NC, as the only reason I went to visit was to see him, not her.

Once in town, I saw the both of them (before NC). I walked towards them, my Dad went towards me, my Mother nudged him, then he suddenly didn’t ‘see’ me and they walked past. Like I wasn’t there.
Painful.

You’ll find the stately homes thread in the relationships topic, all about this sort of behaviour.
So sorry this has happened to you 💐

Stately homes thread is where adult children from dysfunctional families help each other out! Lots of understanding and knowledgeable posters and reading material linked to. Sounds like you’re in that territory with your mum ans the difficult family dynamics!

It’s NOT right to prioritise or be loyal to a husband/ wife if they are emotionally abusive to DC, whether the DC are children or adults.

And he doesn’t have to live with her. He chooses to do so.

I don't understand why you think your father is so marvellous. He allows your mother to behave like this to you. His loyalty should have been to you, to protect you. Instead he stood back and allowed you to take the fall alone. Not the actions of a loving parent.
He could leave any time he chooses. Instead he chooses to stay, and allow your mother to single you out and abuse you. Would YOU let your child be treated like this? Or would you protect them?

@CrumbsInBed I am so sorry that happened goodness me how awful. Your poor dad. You must have felt absolutely gutted.

@Loopytiles you're absolutely right he does choose to live with her. He wants an easy life - if she turned on him he knows the fall out would be untenable. She's really mean to him as it is - I don't know why he's put up with it for so long come to think of it. I remember saying to him when I was very young "if you split up with mum I'll live with you".

She's also realised that I don't respond to her behaviour anymore. So she goes for my kids instead. Makes me very very cross. I've exited my marriage because of emotional abuse and now I realise I put up with it for so long because I'm seemingly used to it.

And thank you for the pointer to the stately homes thread - I shall have a look at that - thank you.

Sorry your marriage was abusive too 😨 but glad you’re out of that.

Important to protect the DC, eg I wouldn’t leave them alone with your parents, sadly.

You could be writing this about my Mother! Even the withdrawing childcare part fits my story too and the favoured siblings who see a different Mum to the one I get.

I’ve had constant digs, snide remarks, judgements my entire life. I only see her now as she’s good with my kids and they love her.

My Father also suffers terribly at her hands and sees how she treats me, but won’t ever back me up (despite me backing him up) as he has to live with her and she has trained him not to fight her. When I read your OP I was surprised you were so surprised as it is a pattern I’ve seen in my own family so often.

Those who say your Dad should leave her don’t understand how this is a gradual thing that builds. My Dad is in his seventies and is too long in the tooth to start again. I don’t blame him at all.

Please don’t judge your Dad too harshly, his love for you exisits separately to his having to exist alongside your Mum.

Please just call him now. Right now. Just a quick call, doesn’t have to be planned. Don’t wait until after the summer hols. Don’t let your Mum win! She’ll have been dripping poison in his ear the whole time you’ve not been speaking and I’m sure he misses you. He knows what he did and I bet he feels bad.

I have no contact with my Mum other than with the children and I limit that to pick up/drop off. She still manages to have dogs and belittle me, but never in front of the children, often in front of my Dad. We now just laugh when she leaves the room and that somehow makes it bearable and doesn’t have the same effect on me.

and good luck x

You left an abusive marriage. You protected your children. Your father didn't. He prioritised the abuser over you. He is not a good guy.

@Dotheflosslikeaboss your post made me cry. My dad is in his 70's too. Mum bangs on about the fact I lean on him too much and that I should "talk to them both" about stuff. Fact is I have never chosen to confide in her because she always twists it, makes herself out to be the martyr. Makes me out to be the bad guy. I admit I'm not the easiest child - a bit of a black sheep, a bit of a rebel. But I now see my behaviour for what it was: isolated and ostracised on the one hand by her, and desperate to be "seen", hence the rebellion.

I think I may need some more bloody counselling. I thought I was doing ok.

Thanks everyone you've been so supportive and helpful.

@RabbitsAreTasty - your comment makes me sad. Really really sad. Punch in the gut time.

I agree that ‘But we took you to Stately homes’ is a good thread in relationships - will help you make more sense of this I.e. work out if she’s a narc or not etc.

Tend to agree you won’t get one without the other though, and it won’t be much fun in the process. I’m struggling with the whole LC / NC thing myself. Families are bloody irritating

@ScoobyCan I was a teenage rebel too and havie always been the black sheep. My Mum has always referred to me as a Cuckoo (as in I’m an egg laid in the wrong nest) which in itself is just horrible, but also strangely accurate.

I hope things get easier for you and that you can patch things up with your Dad. You don’t deserve this. None of us do x

Sorry scooby

You know I do genuinely believe the saying The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off.

No one has said OP’s dad should leave, just that he COULD leave. Partners of people whose behaviour towards their DC is toxic have choices: if as adults they prioritise their partner over their DC, that will affect their relationships.

Sounds like you were the “scapegoat”, scooby.

@LordNibbler - no. I wouldn't. And that's why I left my ex. I don't want my kids to have to go through the emotional abuse I've been through.

Scooby, you sound like a great person. You're struggling through a situation that sounds difficult and it's at times like this you hope your family will pull together and look after you and offer wise counsel.
Sadly I think the previous replies are correct, and you've been made the scapegoat. With no real reason. I don't understand how your sisters and father can stand back and watch this happen to you. These don't seem to be the actions of loving people.
You on the other hand, are doing a brilliant job recognising emotional abuse and protecting your children against it.
A black sheep? A bit of a rebel? I don't think so, I see a strong woman who has put her children first. I admire that very much.

@LordNibbler - thank you. Your sentiments are hugely flattering, thank you for taking the time to say such lovely and confidence boosting things to me. I've got to the point now where actually, I believe in myself. And I'm going to make sure that the children and I are happy. It's really quite empowering. Maybe my family are a little taken aback by my new found confidence....

Thank you all for your support. I really appreciate it.