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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell them to shove their job...??

75 replies

Donatello68 · 23/08/2018 21:04

I was successfully self employed for 10 years and following a divorce, got a bit panicky and took a full time job locally,

It is a weird family company where no one ever leaves... whole family generations work for the company. It is very clique and insular. However, I went for the financial security.

The bloke who I took over from had been there for 10 years. They absolutely worshipped the ground he walked on and he worked all the hours god sent. He asked for an assistant as the job is way too much for one person and they gave him an admin assistant who is keen but, not great so, he left.

He had left by the time I started so there was no handover and no notes. Nothing was written down!! It was a complete nightmare as it was nothing like anything that I have seen before and massively over complicated. I do have a lot of experience but, no matter how hard I worked, nothing was good enough.

It was the most demoralising job that I have ever had and I started having nightmares that I was useless. After 9 months, I resigned and they have made me work the full notice period.

The bloke who had the job before had changed jobs twice in the nine months so, when I resigned they offered him his job back. They offered him £5k more money than I am on and less hours. They actually showed me his new contract!!

They have presumed that I would stay on as a contractor. It now turns out that I was part of the package.... I am expected to be his new assistant!!!

I have told them that I am leaving at the end of my notice period. They are really angry that if I don’t stay, the other bloke will leave.... again...!!!

They think that I am being unreasonable!!! WTF???

OP posts:

Original poster

Donatello68 · 23/08/2018 23:03

I had hoped no signature, statutory notice period, apparently not ☹️

OP posts:

stillnotTheDoctor · 23/08/2018 23:04

Did they tell you that?

Original poster

Donatello68 · 23/08/2018 23:05

No, I did get independent advice....

OP posts:

Original poster

Donatello68 · 23/08/2018 23:06

Saying that, they did have a 17 year old lad start working there. After the first week, he quit. He said that he did enjoy it but, couldn’t do another 70 hour week as he was knackered!!

OP posts:

AdoraBell · 23/08/2018 23:21

What LittleMissSunShine said. Play along and then walk.

Guienne · 23/08/2018 23:22

I think. I'm not hot in law. But no signature = no contract.

Not so. If you know the terms of employment, and take the job and start working and accept salary, there is a binding oral contract.

TatianaLarina · 23/08/2018 23:25

What an extraordinary bunch of jokers.

SusieOwl4 · 23/08/2018 23:25

Impliedcontract , lack of signature does not count unfortunately.

Original poster

Donatello68 · 23/08/2018 23:29

Phew!! If you had said that I could have left after a month... I would have been gutted!! 😂

OP posts:

BettySpagBol · 23/08/2018 23:38

Ehhhhhhh?! What is making you work the crazy amount of notice?!

Original poster

Donatello68 · 23/08/2018 23:49

It is a very small town... I can’t afford to piss them off too much. If I work the notice period, there is nothing that they can really say. The old bloke starts in a couple of weeks... I will leave then..

OP posts:

stillnotTheDoctor · 23/08/2018 23:52

He can't be that old if he's got 40 years left in him.

Original poster

Donatello68 · 24/08/2018 00:01

He must be mid to late thirties...

OP posts:

rosablue · 24/08/2018 00:37

If they're sticking to the letter of the unsigned contract then make sure that you do too - take full lunch hours and breaks and make sure that you don't work any overtime too...

I was once in a job that in the depths of the contract had a condition about not working for competitors for 6 months after leaving. I spoke to a lawyer about it (check out your home insurance to see if you have legal cover on it - it's great for employment stuff and the added bonus of not needing to find cash to pay for a solicitor!). They said that the more unreasonable a term in a contract was, in some respects, the better, as it meant that you could ignore it for being unreasonable. I used to work in what was then a very small field so you could have argued that it was impossible to move on to a new job as you would have had to have not worked for 6 months - and they weren't paying you so not sure what they expected you to live on for that time!

Just wondering if you can argue that a 3 month notice is unreasonable given the previous incumbent's contract was for a month. Do you know what his contract is for this time - is it a month too? Also if they wanted to fire you, would they have to give you 3 month's notice or have they reserved the right for 3 months just for you?

Also - when you said about them giving you an employment contract early on - did they tell you it was a 3 month notice period before you started, did they just not mention it (or mention the other guy going after a month, leaving you to assume that it would also be a month's notice) or did they change your contract soon after you started? If they didn't tell you that it was a 3 month notice period until after you started then you might be able to use it to threaten them with constructive dismissal and offer to be reasonable and split the difference so that you leave after 2 months rather than 3 months - not as good as 1 month obviously but better than 3 and worth a shot (or at least running past your solicitor friend to see if there's anything that you could use to discuss this with them!).

Might also be worth pointing out the contradiction in their thinking - on the one hand telling you that you never do anything right (despite dropping you into a brand new system with no help and support) and yet expecting you to stay on. If you can't do anything right then surely it would be better for them if you left... are you happy to go with no pay (obviously to be paid up until the time you leave, just the bit after you've walked out of the door for the very last time!) or were you hoping to get gardening leave effectively? If they are such an appallingly run company then I can see why they would want to keep you working if they are paying you but if you are happy to have an earlier departure date and then sever ties completely then that would be good too.

And while PigletJohn's contracting rates are a great rule of thumb - in this instance as they are so bad if they did offer you a contract role and you did want to even begin to contemplate it I would urge you to double the rule of thumb rate. And then add a really odd number in to it just to make them wonder - so say you were able to charge £1000 normally then I'd double it for them to make it £2000 a day but tweak it to make it £2307.83 just because you can.

Uncreative · 24/08/2018 00:52

How much longer until the end of your notice period? Can you shorten it by adding any outstanding annual leave to it? Perhaps suggest that it is best for the company so they don’t have to pay you out for it? (Because, technically, you earn annual leave while you are on annual leave so if your contract doesn’t finish until you have taken, for example, the two weeks they owe you at the end of your three month notice period, you have acquired an extra day). Hope that makes sense.

Original poster

Donatello68 · 24/08/2018 00:59

Thank you very much Rosa and Uncreative...

I now only have 20 working days left.. yup, I have been counting!! The other guy starts in 2 weeks - if he turns up! He has changed his mind about taking the job twice!! Once he is there, I will argue that there is no point my staying. I would effectively be doing a 3 week handover which is ludicrous...

OP posts:

Uncreative · 24/08/2018 01:23

You are welcome!

Does anyone know what, if any, action a company can take if an employee just stops showing up?

Of course, Donatello probably doesn’t want to go down that route because of the risk of reputational damage, especially when self employed, (and I certainly wouldn’t recommend it to anyone) but I am just curious.

Mummyoflittledragon · 24/08/2018 01:39

I cannot believe how unprofessional and entitled your employers are being. What a preposterous suggestion. It sounds like you’re nearing the finishing line

In your opinion, did this guy do a rubbish job? I imagine you set up new systems for doing the work. Therefore once fully operational would the role need 2 people? What I mean is I know you said they weren’t happy with what you did but i was wondering if you could go in with the tac “I got this under control, no need for 2 people to do the job and wouldn’t insult the company by taking money from them”.

Watchingtheworldgoby · 24/08/2018 01:53

Having also been a non family member in a family owned and run business, I emphasise.

It is likely they won't give you much of a reference when you leave but leaving a job in under nine months probably won't be included in your linkedin profile anyway I imagine. It is an easy workaround anyway when you are a contractor/self employed. I'd be inclined to value my reputation though and wouldn't ring in sick.

Will there even be a need for two people in the job once the original guy comes back? It could be money for old rope, just put in the hours, sit back and take your pay for a few weeks?

And don't agree to a three month work notice again!

pengymum · 24/08/2018 03:06

Can’t you take holiday owing the last 2 week’s?

Original poster

Donatello68 · 24/08/2018 07:24

This has definitely been a learning experience!! Unfortunately, I have taken all of my holiday to date.

Still, nearing the end....At least I now know that it isn’t just me!!

OP posts:

TheMaddHugger · 04/09/2018 00:24

@Donatello68 one week to go. I bet you're counting the days.

(((((Hugs))))

BtDt. know what you're going through

Original poster

Donatello68 · 04/09/2018 08:53

Yes I am, thanks @TheMadHugger!! How is it going with you?

OP posts:

emmyrose2000 · 04/09/2018 13:09

This sounds bonkers. A three month notice period?!

I worked for a family owned company for four years when I first started working. Never again!

I think for a family to work in a business together, the first criteria should be that said family members actually like each other and get along. The issues/dynamics within that family would have been a psychologist's dream.

TheMaddHugger · 13/09/2018 13:32

@Donatello68. It's almost time? right ? ((Hugs))

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