To ask for help with my alcoholic brother?

[FranticallyPeaceful]

Hi everyone,
I’ve been asked to go and talk to my brother today and I really don’t know what to say, so I was hoping somebody here could advise me.

I’m sorry this is a bit rushed it’s because I’m running around like a headless chicken currently

A bit of background: he’s currently threatening suicide to my mother. He’s an alcoholic, has been for years, he hid it until it got really bad. It ended his marriage from which he has two children. He drank drive until he was caught and had his license revoked, he left my mum with 35k debt and has more debt himself, he lived with her for a year but eventually my step dad kicked him out because my mother was becoming depressed over relentless efforts to help my brother which never worked. My mums marriage suffered a lot. He’s been paid into private rehab 5 times and never worked, his children miss him, his ex wife is pretty awful (although we get along personally, she’s awful to him). Now my dad is telling my mum he will kill himself if my brother carries on and my mum is just under so much pressure it’s absolutely horrific. There is SO MUCH more he’s done but I’m trying to type this out as fast as I can so hopefully get some kind of input

I can’t let him stay with me because last time he did he was hallucinating and it got quite dangerous for my children to be around.

I’ve been asked to go and talk to him tonight but I feel there isn’t much I can say anymore. Does anybody have any input at all? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

Oh op - what a horrible mess!

I have no advice but have some experience with alcoholics in my family too. One in and out of rehab - now finally in recovery at the age of 63. The other died (in recovery, but too late as damage was done) before they were 60.

I have heard arguments for tough love and not enabling etc, but I honestly don’t know. Can you speak to AA? I know my late relative was going to AA when they died. Seemed to help.

Also, did you say both your dad and your brother are threatening suicide?

The (surviving) relative and his son once threatened suicide at the same time too. This must be fairly common then? I definitely think if you can call a professional to help. This is a lot for you to take on.

Dad seems as though he is at the end of his tether and cannot take a moment more of DB. Why is DB saying he wants out though? What would happen if Mum said "OK, this is serious and you need to speak to a professional ASAP, I'll get the crisis team out"?

The best thing you and your family can do for him is to cease any and all contact. So long as he has you all there to dump his problems on, he has no incentive to change his life. Go see him, tell him you love him, but you're done. He can call you when he's sober.

There is literally nothing you can do to help.

I would t talk to your brother , it'll be a waste of breath. I would, however try and get the rest of the family together and decide what you will do collectively to try and keep you all safe and sane . You need to stick together regarding no 'lending' of money , no letting him stay etc. Your brother , sadly, is on his own , it's the rest of the family that now needs support.

It's hell and I wish you all luck X

Op what an awful situation, don't know much to advise but you saying about him hallucinating gave me alarm bells, it's a sign of extreme alcohol withdrawal, so he may need medical attention!

My brother is an alcoholic who lives alone in squalor. A recent hospital admission for a head injury involved security when he had the dts and tried to escape on his hands and knees. He refuses help. Has periods of not drinking and is therefore, in his opinion, not an alcoholic.

My support to my mother is helping her maintain her boundaries and keeping his chaos at arms length.
When he was younger, I did talk to him, and listened to him, for hours.
It did no good whatsoever!

There is little point in talking to your brother. Put your care into your parents. He has tried rehab and no intervention has worked. Until he decides he wants to change, he won't.

Been there with my dad. There's nothing you can do. You can't fix him and nor can your poor mum. Have a read about codependency as it definitely sounds as though your parents are suffering from it and that's why they are as stuck as he is.

I’ve also been there with the alcoholic family member. The reality is that he cannot be sorted out, he has to want to sort himself out. He can be put in rehab as many times as your family will pay and it won’t work unless he wants to do it.

As has been said, there really isn’t anything you can do. The best thing to do is to leave your brother to it and concentrate on helping the people affected by his chaos.

Do not under any circumstances let him stay with you.

Incidentally, I’m not surprised that his wife is horrible to him. Imagine the chaos and hurt he has caused her and the children.

Don't even bother talking to him tonight.
Until an alcoholic decides themselves that they want to quit, there is no point in talking to them.
Best to keep your distance or he will bring you down too.
If HE asks for help, that's different but until / ever he asks, keep out of it.
He will lie, cheat, steal to get booze & his promises mean nothing.
Live your life without him. If he asks for help, help him but until then, there's no point in you tackling him.
He is toxic till he wants to change.

You sound just like my mum with her brother this time last year. I'm sorry to hell you but nothing you say will change anything. The best thing you and your parents could do is go to a support group for relatives of alcoholics. They'll teach you that when you're trying to help you're actually creating more chaos for them to resolve with drink. This does not mean you're to blame! Just that you can't do anything to help this. Your brother needs to work it out by himself whatever it takes. I'm so sorry

You didn't cause it. You can't cure it. You can't control it. Has to be your mantra here. And tour families ideally.
My DB is a drug addict and after 20 years of 'poor me' , endless support despite lies and selfishness I am very low contact. If he ends up on the streets homeless so be it. His addiction only he can choose to fight it. Yes it's difficult bit it's his life.
My sympathy. It's just awful

I'm so sorry. Addiction is a terrible thing, there's nothing you can do. You should get some family support though

Look up Al Amon in your area - it's specifically to help the families of alcoholics.

You cannot stop him.

You CAN change how you all react and therefore limit the damage he can do to you.

Are you saying your dad is threatening to commit suicide, or is your dad saying your brother is?

I think rather than you seeing your brother, all of the rest of you should meet up and decide what to do.

I feel for you op.

After more than 10 years I have in the last month gone no contact with a member of my family due to their alcoholism, I don’t know if I’ve done the right thing and I miss them but i am really hoping this will be the nudge they need but I don’t really believe they will ever stop.
Sorry that’s not much help

Hi OP, as an alcoholic in recovery, I've been (emotionally and physically at least) where your DB is. I can only agree with PPs who say that there's nothing you can do until your DB wants to change badly enough. The only thing that worked for me was regular AA meetings, working the 12 step programme and finding a sponsor.

There's a 24 hour AA helpline that's manned by alcoholics with at least a year's sobriety. In fact someone who staffs it on a Thursday evening is a dear friend who drank two litres of gin a day - who has been sober over three years. People can plummet to the depths and can still recover if that's what they want to do and give themselves wholeheartedly to the programme.

Anyway the number is 0800 9177 650. He won't have to leave the house and it might be a start. Talking to someone who has been where you are can be a relief of sorts.

I feel for you and your DM. It's a horrible situation to be in. X

Thank you for the advice. Turns out I shouldn’t have gone, and I won’t be going back (I’ve been asked back today, but I’m not going).

And yes the hallucinations were caused by withdrawal and he ended up in hospital, they told him he shouldn’t quit cold turkey and since then that has given him the idea that he must keep drinking and can never stop.

I showed up and he kept asking why I was there, telling me I’m annoying, I cleaned his apartment and I asked him to put the few bottles next to him in the bin and he said “how dare you speak to me like that” “who do you think you are?” “You’re not even remotely important to anybody so what makes you think you can talk to me?” Etc. He has a beautiful appartment and it’s just trashed, he was sober for 4 (6 including rehab) weeks before this, the longest he has gone in years and even though he only started drinking since Saturday night, there was 23 bottles of wine, 16 vodka bottles and 10 bottles of whiskey. I have no idea how he’s even alive!

We spoke for awhile and he wanted me to go to AA with him tomorrow and I agreed, then he didn’t want me to leave, he wanted me to take his card and money but then when I agreed and said I’d also take his keys so i could get in in the morning, (the apartments have fobs and you can’t access them without it) he panicked realising he couldn’t get alcohol and then shouted at me for bouncing my baby (I have a 13 week old I brought in the sling as I feed him so couldn’t leave him with DP), told me to “stop fucking dancing in front of me” then grabbed his remaining drink that I had gathered up to take away and locked himself in the bathroom shouting at me to leave him alone and leave his keys.
This made me realise more than anything just how much his mental health has deteriorated.

I’ve decided not to go today but now my mum is instead, despite me saying she shouldn’t

And thank you for the number. I’ll pass it along. I just really don’t want to feed his situation but after seeing him yesterday I’m so torn. I don’t want my mother to have to go through this at all and if I don’t then she will.
I’m not going today and I’m going to have a talk with my mother about it again, but i have a feeling she won’t stop trying to help. She has days where she says she’s had enough, but it never lasts

I agree with @HectorlovesKiKi completely my brother is an alcoholic and there is absolutely nothing I can do to help him. Believe me I’ve tried, I’m NC now for my own well-being as I just couldn’t take anymore. Until they ask for help and take themselves to it your on a hiding to nothing. I sat with my brother in the doctors where he admitted to her he was an alcoholic, was depressed, wanted to stop, he was allocated a councillor and promptly quit after one session claiming the councillor said he’s fine and doesn’t know why he’s been sent to see her.

@FranticallyPeaceful my brother did exactly the same thing when he was told not to go cold turkey, he saw it as his green light to keep drinking “otherwise it’s dangerous”. I went to Alanon with my SIL which supports families of alcoholics it was heartbreaking the stories people were telling. I sat there crying I just couldn’t speak and it was then that I realised how badly it was affecting me as the abuse I took (other family members suffer too) from him has been appalling I’m NC but he still has his ways his latest is to try to stop me having contact with my niece. It’s like he’s angry with me but doesn’t know why. I stopped contact with him when he took my niece hostage and threatened to kill himself.

Very sad situation.

You can only make decisions for yourself. The most sensible would be low to no contact with DB.

Your family members’ decisions about their relationship with your DB are up to them. You’re not responsible for enabling or protecting them from their choices.

Your mother has chosen to do everything she’s done for your DB, to her great cost.

It wasn’t sensible to visit your DB, especially with a baby.

Alcoholics will destroy you emotionally. My brother was an alcoholic (previously a heroin addict) and he died earlier this year at 48 (not directly from alcohol, but from oral cancer caused by years of smoking and drinking). Nothing you say or do will make any difference. Your parents need to stop enabling him. He will be a lost cause until he decides (or if he decides) to stop for good. Distance you self and look after yourself. Al-anon gives good family support. You will never talk him into stopping, he has to do it for himself.