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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To charge family for professional services?

54 replies

HighlandWorrier · 23/08/2018 08:14

Just wondered what the norm was if say your sister was a hairdresser, would you expect mates rates / freebies for a haircut?

My sister is a beautician and always charges me for nails etc, maybe slightly reduced rate and won't do them at home always makes me travel to the salon she works in.

I get a bit miffed with this especially as in the past DH has done professional family photos for them for nothing and I recently looked after her DC for 2 days and nights whilst she had a hospital stay.

Just sucks that we are quite giving yet she can't even do my nails / waxing for free.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Aaaahfuck · 23/08/2018 09:16

I think if you're giving but not getting back it is time to stop being as generous.

I think there's a line to be drawn with doing your work thing for free as I'm sure in certain professions people would take advantage. However if you are doing stuff for her she should reciprocate.

Next time you do something could you try saying I'll do if for xxx in return. Or talk to her. Perhaps she doesn't want to have to provide freebies to everyone so has just implemented a blanket approach?

GandalfsWrinklyHat · 23/08/2018 09:22

You are slightly BU as she also needs to pay het bills, and whther she does your nails or a paying chstomer, her time is her time BUT is sounds like she’s quite cheeky in other ways so I would also feel a tad miffed.

I need to know about the being a bridesmaid for her! 😇

Penfold007 · 23/08/2018 09:25

Highlandworrier it could that you DSis has well defined boundaries between her personal and professional lives. Perhaps you need to review your boundaries.

Lemonysnicketts · 23/08/2018 09:32

Depends hugely on the relationship and how reciprocal it really is. If you’re getting those things done every 3-4 weeks and expecting it for free and it’s maybe £60 every time, then to say you expect £60 worth of work every 3-4 weeks for free when you’ve cared for her DC when she was in hospital (which is just being a decent person actually and shouldn’t be tallied up) and some photos YABU because that adds up over the course of a year to a lot of money. And if she then does it for you she may feel she has to do it for friends and every other family member and where does it end.

It depends though if this is just the one thing or if in general she expects things for free but expects you to pay. I have a big family - if I worked for free for my siblings etc I’d be penniless. If she’s taken the time and effort to pay for courses to learn new skills then why should it be free, and if she has everything at the salon, why should she have to do it at her home effectively taking her work home with her - she may not want to do that lest every family member suddenly wants their nails done.

She may worry she’ll lose money and business over it (by taking free clients when she should have paying customers).

What I do is a skill I have learned and honed over many years and I find it really annoying when people say ‘could you just?’ and expect it for free, not accounting for my time (hours if it) and materials (expensive even when they are at their cheapest). They’re not taking into consideration how much I’ve put in to learn to do what I do.

Having said all of that, in her shoes if you are close (which from this post I can’t tell), I’d be saying to my sister I’d do it free or to cover materials but not to tell others it was free because I don’t want every other family member assuming the same applies to them.

But frankly if she charges you full whack you may as well go elsewhere, she’s evidently not particularly happy with the arrangement anyway if she makes you go to the salon / won’t paint your nails for you with your own nail polish. The latter is seriously what a sister should do anyway, it’s much easier when someone else does it.

Lemonysnicketts · 23/08/2018 09:35

I’ve seen this situation played out twice with friends - one set of friends always do each other’s hair for free and it works perfectly. The other one did one for free and the other always expected payment even though the first friend never charged her - now that’s just bloody cheeky....but that’s a whole other thread!

Snog · 23/08/2018 09:40

She is clearly one of life's takers so all you can do is rein in your own natural generosity to her.

OctaviaOctober · 23/08/2018 09:44

So stop giving her your business. In fact be a bit petty. Try to find someone who does a noticeably better job and flaunt your nails in front of her!

Thehop · 23/08/2018 09:46

Mates rates for a sister to cover costs definitely

Just stop giving her freebies.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 23/08/2018 09:50

I think she is taking the piss. In my family we all help each other out and wouldn't dream of charging. I would cover material costs though, as it shouldn't cost someone to do a favour. I wouldn't be so quick to offer free childcare in future.

genivert · 23/08/2018 10:09

Silent, ongoing expectations is being a CF.

Just have an adult conversation the next time she asks for a photoshoot.

This is how she pays her bills, puts food in her kids mouths, and has trained for it - you need to respect that (& expect others to do the same with your family skills).

Not to mention she may have business rates you aren't even aware of (renting space) or doesn't want to set a precedent or maybe simply cannot afford to (you don't know her finances).

Remember, every appointment you take up was a lost opportunity for a paying, returning customer!

We've had huge issues around being too nice in the past with both DH and me, now we give a small discount (think 5%) and it's amazing how few mates take it up now - meaning busier than ever with real customers - people who get something for nothing don't value it.

genivert · 23/08/2018 10:10

Forgot to add/emphasize - you also need to value your own time OP.

Stop giving your time so freely/cheaply. If you don't value it, who does?

Wishicouldsleep · 23/08/2018 10:15

As as sister...

I would expect to pay the 'cost price'. So whatever it costs her in products.

For a hairdresser I would offer to pay for the bleach/tint/colour used

For a photographer I would offer to pay their editing time.

For a manicurist I would offer to pay towards the cost of the nail varnish (minimal I suppose)

Saying that- I had a thread on here a while ago as my sister expected to be made a bracelet for free (I make jewellery)... Once I had made it to her specifications she refused to even pay me my cost expenses. It took me 4 hours and the sterling silver cost me £15 but she thought I should give it to her for free!

Original poster
HighlandWorrier · 23/08/2018 10:37

Haha GandalfsWrinklyHat I probably better start a new thread if I go onto the bridesmaid story!

Thanks all for your opinions I wanted to gauge what the norm was, so quite a mixed response. Re the hospital stay it was more of a cosmetic procedure and I stepped in at short notice as her partner had to work overseas.

Regarding our general relationship we have always got on pretty well with only one proper fall out over the years. I am the older sister she is more than a decade younger than me so could be a generational attitude she's got.

OP posts:
NonaGrey · 23/08/2018 12:34

If I did that line of work I imagine I'd make no profit as I'd be doing it for free definitely for close family members.

You say that like it’s a virtue. It’s not.

This isn’t a hobby, it’s her job. Of course you should pay her.

Hopoindown31 · 23/08/2018 13:05

I don't expect people to work for free, but mates rates for family is reasonable. For beauty treatments maybe just materials?

MeyMary · 23/08/2018 13:14

It's the lack of reciprocity, I agree.

They should obviously pay for the photos etc as well...

Isleepinahedgefund · 23/08/2018 13:17

I don’t think anyone should expect to benefit from someone else’s skill for free. For instance I sew rather well, and people often ask me to run things up for them for nothing or for a bottle of wine.... I just say no mostly these days, or I tell them how much time it will take me and how much my hourly rate is in my gainful employment, and that usually puts them off anyway!

She makes her living from that, you shouldn’t expect it for free. The answer is that, if you think it should be reciprocal and it’s not, you stop offering your husband’s service for free to her.

MeyMary · 23/08/2018 13:19

Regarding our general relationship we have always got on pretty well with only one proper fall out over the years. I am the older sister she is more than a decade younger than me so could be a generational attitude she's got.

Were you involved in raising her? I had to "train my siblings" (especially a certain someone Hmm) to stop seeing me as a less "scary" / deserving of respect version of our mother...

I luckily put my foot down and once listed all the things I did (get them ready in the morning, help them with their homework, take them to "special outings" like the cinema, drive them to sports events/classes etc) to explain why I sometimes felt like certain things were just not my responsibility (anymore)...

Lemonysnicketts · 23/08/2018 13:23

Sounds like a line needs to be drawn in the sand if you’re also heading into bridesmaid issues already. If she’s generally a selfish person (which I don’t know that she is, she could just be making good business decisions) then it’s better not to have a give-take relationship at all and just take your business elsewhere maintaining your relationship. I always think family and money can turn into a really ugly area, I would never go into business with a relative for example as I’ve watched it turn sour many times over. And some folks are selfish (thinks of the time a friend hosted a bbq for her younger brother and all his friends to be kind and generous and he turned up with one beer for himself and nothing more as he was driving....!!!)

Fabricwitch · 23/08/2018 13:27

It depends what is is (just painting with normal polish, full acrylics, or anywhere in between) and how often you get it done.
I would expect a discount though!

Pengggwn · 23/08/2018 13:27

How often are you wanting your nails done? As a one off I wouldn't charge a sister, but I wouldn't be her personal beautician free of charge either.

Lemonysnicketts · 23/08/2018 13:29

And if @meymary has hit the nail on the head with you taking part in raising her, you are going to have to be more direct in your approach and go elsewhere. If you’ve given a lot to her over the course of her life, she won’t realise it’s not your “job” to always look out for her / pay her - may be you need to move into a more equal footing of both being adults. The decade between you will definitely change how she sees you, she may think you can afford a lot more than her for starters.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 23/08/2018 13:37

It's not the time here or the costs... It's the basic lack of reciprocity...

I would be saying - dh did all that photo work that would have cost ?200£...if we're now paying perhaps you can knock the 25£ fee off what you owe him/is..

This smacks of cheeky fuckery...oh you're my sister /bil you cant charge me... But I can charge you!

Original poster
HighlandWorrier · 23/08/2018 14:31

Hi MeyMary no wasn't involved in raising her, I had left home by the time she was in primary school. I usually go elsewhere to get my nails etc done she has waxed me once and done my nails a couple of times. I don't actually even get my nails done that often but had a night out coming up that I wanted to get them done for (rubbish at doing them myself).

The bridesmaid issue, without meaning to drip-feed she has basically told me it would be better to come as a guest rather than a bridesmaid because I said I wouldn't spend the night in her room the night before the wedding as I wanted to spend it with my DH and kids, the youngest is clingy and haven't spent a night away from her. We are all going abroad for the wedding and it's less than 4 weeks away she tells me this (we booked this trip a year and a half ago). She's also miffed I didn't attend her hen-night due to being unwell at the time.

OP posts:
serbska · 23/08/2018 14:35

I want to pay friends/family for services. I don't want them to work extra for no pay! I like to use them because I know the quality will be good, not because I'll get a deal.