To think self-identifying as disabled or as black/Asian is offensive?

[HoundsOfHove]

Applying for a job. It says this in the wording -
"We particularly encourage applications from those who self-identify as black, Asian, minority ethnic, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and/ or disabled."

No problem with that obviously, but why not say people who are the above?

Otherwise couldn't I self-identify as disabled? And that's wrong, because I'm not. And hugely offensive to people who aren't able-bodied! And if I self-identify then they just have to take my word for it? Or is it just the new way of phrasing things?

"Well no matter how much you self-identify as disabled at work, they will not offer any reasonable adjustments until you provide the medical proof "

Total bollocks.

just because they say that doesn't mean that they obey what they say - its often blurb to conform & if you are disabled and apply for jobs you will find that they still exclude you ie having aspergers means that although your ability to do a job (ie Library assistant) they can tell you that you failed because you didn't give a good interview even though they should know that to help a person within the spectrum they need to not give open questions but closed ones. Even when the person concerned is very able. (Sore point) So take it from me don't think saying I have got a disability means you are more likely to get the job (a lot of literature about this kind of thing being lip service which doesn't carry through) which is why when they take people off PIP etc it is really cynical because no matter what course/training experience they have they are still unlikely to be offered a job

sandstorm That is why there is a legal definition of disability. Plenty of people with illnesses meet it, but not all.

And open questions are asked at interviews because it is shown to work best with everyone else. Whereas closed questions are likely to get very short answers from anyone who is nervous.

toomany I am sorry you didn't manage to understand I am one of those people who has, on occasion, to self identify as disabled as I have an intermittent condition that effects my mobility.

And butthurt really? Gross!

Then you have even less of an excuse for your revolting attitude. Scarlet for you.

CuriousaboutSamphire I liked your email!

Let us know if you get a response?

@toomanychilder
Like I say, it's complicated. It isn't just a matter of affinity as some people seem to be suggesting, but a whole mess of issues around structural disadvantages, shame (thinking of Kelly Marie Tran's recent piece), stereotyping, etc etc etc.

I'm still thinking this through. It seems obvious to me that you should respect the ethnic identity someone puts on a form - utterly disrespectful to say to someone "oh hey no, your kids can't be X. I'm going to change that for you." But...given the history of minority people being encouraged to "pass as white" etc, I just have some deep deep discomfort with the "self-identifying" moniker in this instance.

I am not asking anyone else to not use it. I am not saying "oh you can do it but I still think it is wrong". I am saying it makes me really fucking uncomfortable, and I think it's worth considering when not all members of a marginalised group are comfortable with a label.

I don't know, basically. I haven't fully worked out why yet - and as with many things around race I may yet come around to a different view on it.

Well said Tilliebean.

Proactively inclusive recruitment is so necessary, and so completely normal.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... scarlet ?

The word butthurt is homophobic.

"butthurt" is homophobic. I agree with the rest of toomanychilder's post, but that word is one better dropped.

The fact that people are actually trying to argue that being part of a maginalised group somehow magically doesn't affect your job chances at all, ever? I have zero time for that bullshit.

It's very much a two edged sword.

On the one hand, it would seem onorous to have to prove you belong to a certain group e.g. disabled.

On the other, not requiring proof opens society up to fraudsters claiming to belong in order to secure unfair advantage.

We should be working towards a society that considers people on their individual merits, while being inclusive towards people in groups that traditionally struggle to be seen as equal. I just wish I knew how to make this happen more quickly.

We should be working towards a society that considers people on their individual merits, while being inclusive towards people in groups that traditionally struggle to be seen as equal. I just wish I knew how to make this happen more quickly.

That would be the common sense I would like to see all identity politics replaced with!

@cucumbergin - just to say I think your posts are interesting and thoughtful - i have a mixed race friend who ‘passes’ and i think she feels the mismatch between being assumed to be white but being Culturally a bit different and having an unusual Name and then also the awareness that she does benefit from looking white in a lot of her day to day interactions. She’s from a central Asian background and has a ‘Muslim’ name but isn’t Muslim at all - has its moments - she is obviously forced into thinking about all this in a way I never am as a very average white bod. I think that wording on a job application would just give her a little more confidence in applying that her name wasn’t going to be a disadvantage. But yes it does seem so personal and I can see why someone who has never had any of the benefits of looking white would be uncomfortable with the idea that a ‘passing’ person might seem to be suggesting they have the same experiences.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... scarlet ?

Unsuprising, with your incredibly narrow minded viewpoint.

What is scarlet ?

And, if you care to read what I have said, you might realise you have misunderstood me entirely!

I'm still thinking this through. It seems obvious to me that you should respect the ethnic identity someone puts on a form - utterly disrespectful to say to someone "oh hey no, your kids can't be X. I'm going to change that for you." But...given the history of minority people being encouraged to "pass as white" etc, I just have some deep deep discomfort with the "self-identifying" moniker in this instance

I'm not sure I understand. You are deeply uncomfortable with mixed race people calling themselves mixed race if you think they look too white? That's pretty....weird, and makes me uncomfortable.

Do people here believe in the one drop that Hitler believed in? i.e. it does not matter what you look like, if you have a black or asian relative going back 3 generations, you are not white?

abucat No. I believe that it doesn't matter what colour, race, creed you are.

I believe that everyone should feel proud of their race, creed etc. Personal history is just that, personal and history. Interesting to the individual but should have no importance to anyone else. Sadly all sorts of well meaning movements in identity politics have managed to make ' being proud' equal 'defend unto death' - see Black Lives Matter...

a) that shouldn't have to exist, this is the 21st century
b) that it has to exist should make people stop and reassess their own feelings towards anyone who is not the same as themselves
c) then you see how much anger and violence it was used to cause and/or excuse and again have to wonder what the fuck it is Western society is building?

I may not have phrased that well, but hopefully you'll see what I mean, and why I dislike identity politics as it actually is!

Oh! Picking at the content because you disagreed with a previous post, rather than engaging with it!

OK!

I think you're trying to find something to be annoyed about.

How do you define any of those things?

Who? Me?

If so , what things?

And this is AIBU, so OP and anyone else is more than entitled to be annoyed by anything that crosses their mind, or inbox!

Hi everyone.
Just to say that we've made some deletions on this thread and we hope, going forward, that everyone who remains on the thread will do so on the basis that their fellow MNers are posting in good faith and in the enquiring and intelligent spirit of the site.
This has been a very informative discussion and one that we would hate to lose if it descends into bunfight territory.
Thanks!