To deny DH a 5th child!

[Saspa]

NC as DH knows my user name!
So been with DH 15 years. Had our first child very quickly (unplanned) and quite young. 8 years later, we were settled had jobs and a home, and tryed for our second DD. And decided to try for another when second DD was 1. And then fell pregnant with our 4th while I had the implant fitted. We havnt had it easy with ttc and had our share of heartbreak. So number 4 although unplanned and very soon after our 3rd, was a little miracle for us.

So we have not long moved into a better sized home. Could do with an extra room but it's comfortable to live in. DH got a better job and I am now a stay at home parent. We are slightly better off doing it this way, as we don't need to pay for child care. But money is still a little tight.

Now DH has started asking if we could try for DC5. He has been mentioning it for a few months. But apparently thinking about it for nearly a year. Now he just won't stop. He loves being a dad. He has always wanted a big family. He doesn't see any problem. In his mind, he provides for us, we have a home, and we are good parents that love our kids, so what's stopping us!
In my mind, I feel like as much as I love being a mum and love my kids, I have been a mum from very young, for the last 15 years, my youngest is 2 So still have a long way to go before they fly the nest. I also want to do something else with my life, I would love to finish my training. Also we have just got a house that fits our family, where would we fit another child in? And as i said money is tight. And affording another would be a push. But secretly at the same time as thinking all of this, I would love another.

I feel so bad for shutting DH down. I can see how much he wants this. I havnt told him that I would have another baby in heartbeat, if circumstances were different as I don't want to give him any hope. I have told him my reasons why not, but he still keeps asking me to think about it.

So AIBU to say no!

YANBU why would you want to put yourself under more pressure in finances, time, space and physically. You have a big family!
I have to ask sorry but do you have 4 girls? Is their a reason particularly he wants another???

I agree with a PP about revisiting in a couple of years time. DH and I have 3 DC (eldest DD not DH so 2 DC together) there is 17 months between the two we have together and 5/6 years between eldest DD and he younger 2 so am at various difficult stages with them all!

I know DH would like another but I said maybe a year or so ago that I would discuss once DS started school, well he starts tomorrow and I really don’t want anymore children, I’ve got my nursing in the pipeline for next year and am currently enjoying a little freedom that comes as babies and toddlers get older, youngest DD also starts pre school this week. They all sleep all night etc and are healthy, I don’t think I could go back to the sleepless nights and having a baby constantly stuck to my boob again! I think DH is disappointed but He understands

5 children is really obscene. Think of others, not just yourselves.

He doesn't see any problem. In his mind, he provides for us,

the future isn't guaranteed, if he dropped dead tomorrow he wouldn't be able to provide for you!
same goes if he ended up medically unfit/disabled.
what if you split - doubt he'd be picking up the slack.

you're an individual in your own right too, with interests, hobbies, dreams and ambitions.
why are you expected to sacrifice all that and remain a baby making machine?

he wouldn't be so keen on having more dc if he actually did more of the menial and monotonous side of parenting and childcare.
Currently he gets to enjoy the best parts of being a parent when he's home and is able to throw money at the rest.

Two things:
First, as others have already pointed out, you already have a large family. Your DH says that he can provide for them, but actually he can't. Educating a child costs £5000 a year in state schools, multiply that by 12 years in school, that costs £60000 per child, you've got 4 so that's £240 000 in education costs. He doesn't pay that, the state does. Same with the cost of caring for a pregnancy and delivery. He doesn't pay, the state does. The cost on the state of a child over its lifetime is phenomenal.
Second, what about your career in all of this? You don't have a child just because you fancy one. He's trying to emotionally blackmail you.

My guess is you'll go along with what he says. Heaven help this world with such a huge population increase. My guess is that in fifty years time I go will be very different for your children.

shouldwestayorshouldwego No he isn't isn't controlling at all!
Snowcatrunsthehouse yes we do have 4 girls! We have lost 2 boys inbetween. Sorry to drip. We lost one boy at 26 weeks and our third dd is a twin, her brother was stillborn! So although it hasn't been said, I feel the tension when other dad's talk about their boys. If you get what I mean. Probably adds to my guilt for saying no!
Cersilannisterinthesnow I completly get this, my youngest will be 3 at the end of the year so will be starting nursury in January. She has be clean day and night since March so no more nappies. Holiday this year was so much more chilled. And that much closer to getting back into work and training.
Redpanda I have said that iv told DH no. But please could you tell me why you think 5 kids is obscene. Why would you have to think of other people when adding to your family? Just curious, as iv had people tell me that having 4 kids is irresponsible of me, but has only been whilst at work so would have been inappropriate for me to question them.

I would imagine that the obscene comments are relating to the overpopulation crisis.

The answer to this, for you personally, is going to be to weigh up what you want. If you do want DC5; is there a way that you can make it feasible? Can he?

If not; put the idea to bed and enjoy your youngest's last toddler-y years. If you can, have some serious conversations.

From a personal perspective; there's no one answer that will help you here. It's very personal to you and DHz

I'm guessing that he not actually a hands on dad, except the for the few hours he feels he is.

Where as you do the rest of the 99.9% of the actual parenting.

I just don’t understand the mentality of “loves being a mum/dad” equating to the need to have as many children as you can squeeze out.
He’s already a Dad four times over, surely four is more than enough to love?

I can’t begin to imagine the trauma of losing your baby boys, I’m so sorry.

Is he keen for another baby because he’s hoping for a boy?

I’m sorry for your losses, OP.

I do think the four DDs info is relevant. Does DH want a fifth child, or does he want a son?

What about if you waited a few years while you complete your training, then you go out to work and DH becomes a SAHD?

Bezm wow that is a staggering figure. Guess iv never thought of that!
Would the amount of tax we pay not repay that over the years? My husband's tax bill alone (He has a buisness) is very high. That would be repayed+ within 10 years, not counting the many other years he has/will be paying tax for? Not goading, just would like the knowledge! I suppose I just always assumed taxes cover these things!
And your right. And my career is so important to me.
Iv said I said no, so no, not just going a long with it, just didn't know if I was being unreasonable, iv never heard anyone talk about this situation and really mean no!

I've name changed.

I see where you're coming from on wanting to give him a boy. Except there's no guarantee on that. At what point would you say stop if the next was a girl? And the next? How does that leave your daughters feeling when they realise you're chasing a son? How will each of you feel if the fifth baby was a girl too? Will he badger you for a 6th and justify it as wanting a large family? (4 is large, even if it's not the largest family possible.)

I do understand, a little, how hard it must be. My grandparents had a twin birth, where their little boy died shortly after birth and the little girl survived. Their only surviving children were all girls. I know it was something they carried with them throughout their lives. It was difficult and sad for my grandfather at times that he lost the chance to raise his son, but he also treasured the children he had.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that you or you husband don't. Just that sometimes we have to find ways to accept the way things have turned out and focus on embracing what we do have. That was what I saw in my grandparents' lives.

My grandparents stopped having children when their family was a size they could cope with, rather than trying to carry on chasing a son. Their home and finances (and energy!) fitted the number of children they had. They gave their daughters a wonderful home, and life, filled with love.

Would that really be so bad? It struck me on reading your op how much I could visualise the plans you have for your own future. They sound like good and valuable dreams to have. I don't see why you shouldn't get the chance to pursue those. Your future, and your needs, matter too.

It is okay for you to say no to this, for any reason, but the reasons you have are all compelling.

Yanbu. I would count my blessings. You never know what the future holds, do you own your home, Are you dependent on tax credit top ups. I know the future is unknown but it is a risk. You could have twins

It sounds lovely for some but I do wonder about individual time with the DC. Is your oldest helping much already. In this day I think 5 is to many sorry.

Sorry for your previous losses

Your body your choice.

For me, once you have children, you also have to to try to weigh up the benefits to them of a new addition, against the negatives. Actual children’s needs always trump those of prospective possible children.
You have 4 lovely children who each have 3 siblings to play with and share the adult members’ of the family’s attention and resources. Another baby will take a disproportionate amount of your time and attention away from your existing DC for at least three years. You are adding costs to every treat, meal out and holiday. Your house will be more cramped, your washing and food costs will increase. You will be older when they reach their majority and live to see less of their adult lives.
It sounds negative, and I should flag that having a severely disabled DD2 probably skews my view a little, but I’d also consider the fact that this 5th could be a multiple birth; have severe SEN or other complications, or you could suffer injury during delivery.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it, - I wouldn’t, but I’m not you nor in your family. I’m just saying you should think very carefully.

It sounds like you have a very happy family. I knew a family with six children and it was a very happy family, on the flip side husband hated being one of five.
I’m very sorry for the loss of your babies.

I just don’t understand the mentality of “loves being a mum/dad” equating to the need to have as many children as you can squeeze out.
He’s already a Dad four times over, surely four is more than enough to love?

This 100%. If he loves being a dad, he should arrange to spend as much time as he possibly can with the children he already has - doing fun stuff with them as well as the more mundane/unpleasant stuff - it's still a way of bonding and giving them the clear message throughout their childhoods that you love and care for them.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but this reminds me of when you see the cover stories on the tacky sensationalist magazines dubbing somebody "Britain's Most Romantic Man!" because he's been married 8 times or whatever. Presumably, two young single people who marry and then stay happily married until the first of them dies 70 years later somehow AREN'T romantic, then?

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the population aspect. Call me selfish if you will, but it can't really be all that bad, otherwise the vocal proponents of the urgency for population reduction would have led by example. The two most outspoken I can think of are James Lovelock, originator of the Gaia Theory (father of four children) and Prince Philip, who has said that he wishes he could be reincarnated as a virus after death so as to drastically reduce the population (father of four children). Or maybe it's just ordinary unknown people's children (who also make do with one house per family) that the planet can't sustain....

Also with the question of cost to the taxpayer, surely it makes much more sense to focus the cost/benefit on the baby themselves rather than the parents? Each baby costs the NHS one birth, the state one education and has the potential to become one taxpayer. Parents of one child will cost the NHS/state a fifth as much as parents of five in the early years, but will only therefore produce one fifth as many future taxpayers.

I would look on things purely in regard to how a future birth (which could be more than one baby) would impact on all family members already here and also on the potential new arrival(s). Going through pregnancy and birth (and maybe EBFing), extra years before you can take steps towards going back to work, more people to share your family income between, less time and attention available for each child, the potential need for children to share bedrooms when they otherwise may not have had to. If a fifth pregnancy is a multiple, you'll have to swap the family car for a small minibus or resign yourselves to never travelling together as a family anywhere. Plus, if you DID go ahead and had a healthy boy, could you be absolutely certain that your DH wouldn't show him favour and give the girls any reason whatsoever (however unintentional) to come to thinking that they were the consolation prizes before the actual required child came along? And what if any subsequent child(ren) had severe disabilities and/or special needs when you already have your hands full with four as it is?

In fact, thinking about it, the only family member who remains relatively unscathed by these considerations is your DH....

YADNU

4 is a big family and it's enough for any woman's body.

@LightDrizzle

Very well put (slightly x-posted in content, but said so much more succinctly than I did!)

I can’t help but wonder if your DH hasn’t quite coped with the loss of the boys. Very traumatic for you both, OP. I mean to say, he’s coped but there’s a part of him that may be trying to fill a void.

You’re not unreasonable in the least to stop at 4. I think it’s not so much the number of kids but the length of time you’ve been doing this gig. I’ve been a mum 16 years now. You mentioned 15, I think. And you know, you feel it, don’t you? You feel the need to invest in your own prospects and dreams again after putting them on the back burner.

Your eldest will be doing GCSEs which wouldn’t a brilliant year to get pregnant. My friend delivered her baby the week her eldest started exams. Timing is everything!

It does sound like it might have more to do with your DH wanting a longed for son and about the losses of sons you've both endured than about necessarily wanting a fifth child.

Maybe if you're still young you can just put the decision on hold for a while?

Just wondering if it's worth pursuing grief counselling for your DH, if it's the kind of thing that he would consider going to.

Thanks everyone! You all have some very good points.
I think I need to sit and have a good chat with DH. I think there are many things we havnt spoken about.
Maybe he is trying to fill a void, and is really just wanting a boy. But for me, a pregnancy with another boy would be my worst fear! We need to talk about this really!

You have all made me more certain that a 5th really isnt for me. And that I should not feel guilty for not giving into my DH. I'm sure he will thank me one day!