To think the body positivity movement is a disgrace

[gendercritter]

I know this is an emotive subject so I'd appreciate if you read what I actually have to say about this before responding.

The body positivity movement has been gaining pace for some time with more and more people building quite profitable businesses out of it and getting a lot of media attention. (E.g one women has an Instagram account with 1 million followers)

I absolutely love its central message that diet culture is harmful and makes you bigger as well as its emphasis on 'you have worth and value whatever size you are.' And for the record I know several bigger women who are absolutely drop-dead gorgeous. You can absolutely be beautiful at any size.

But more and more I think aspects of the movement are incredibly damaging. It's changed from saying 'you matter' to saying 'it's absolutely ok to be extremely overweight. If you are gaining, don't worry. Keep eating.' I see this exact message on social media on a regular basis.

I think this is profoundly anti-woman. We live in a capitalist society where it's fair game to make money just about any old way. Food companies pump their food full of sugar and sweeteners directly knowing that makes people eat it compulsively. Men (generalising but most big companies are headed by men) make an absolute fortune from people getting bigger. As someone who has lost nearly 7 stone in my life I can say that life, at worst, is much harder when you're big, as a general rule. If you are very large and healthy then that is great (really), but you most likely haven't hit 60 yet. Bodies begin to break down very quickly if you are large at that age. I can't begin to say how cross it makes me that companies exploit this when people could be looking forward to a healthy old age. I don't believe being overweight is an individual failing - it is these companies' fault.

I really hate gastric bypass surgery for several reasons but evidence exists that your rate of getting several cancers drops by 87% for losing a significant amount of weight after surgery. 87%! Cancer is grim. It is completely irresponsible to spread the message that getting very big is fine. Instead it should be that whilst you should love yourself first and foremost, loving yourself involves feeding yourself nourishing healthy foods so you can have as lovely and healthy a life as possible. (Eating nourishing healthy food does not equal dieting, to clarify once more). Knee replacements, cancer and diabetes in old age does not make for a lovely life. I am in my 30s but have spent a lot of time in hospital and believe me, there are a million other things to do with one's time that are better/more fulfilling/more pleasurable

If anyone criticises this movement they generally get rounded on and told they have 'faux concern.' It shuts down the debate very successfully. This movement is also heavily pushing the 'some women have penises' line too which is another debate but the whole thing just feels so cultlike.

One of the things is that shame and criticism have absolutely no ability to motivate people.

I absolutely, wholeheatedly agree and I can only repeat that I like the message that you have worth at every size. Society treats overweight people like they are worthless and that needs to stop.

My argument is about the bopo movement going way beyond that

I think it must be confusing for teenagers out there, especially those who are overweight. In one ear they're being told that being fat is bad for them, the increased chances of diabetes, cancer, hypertension etc. In the other ear they'll be reading Instagram people talking about body positivity and the posts that I've seen from obese people continuing to say how healthy they are and that you can be fat and healthy. Not mentioning the stats and the fact it's likely to catch up with them.

I agree with people not realising that you don't need to be a size 22 or whatever to be obese. I was recently a size 14 and obese. I'm now an overweight size 12 and tend to be in the healthy range when I get to a 10.

I was also classed as obese for my height when I was a size 16, and overweight when I was a size 12-14.

I think for the younger girls who starve themselves etc it would help.

I think a lot of people aren't aware that the bedfellow of restriction is binging. So a lot of teens who are restricting their diet are at huge risk of binge eating disorders and obesity later on in life. I think that is partly why this issue gets me so passionate - yes, I badly want teens to hear the message that dieting is terrible for you and that it is ok to be yourself. But a lot of people coming out of starving themselves do gain weight quite rapidly and are then vulnerable to this movement which is so cultlike in its actions. I think they're actually being preyed on at worse. I appreciate other people might not see that side of it but I do. I have a family member who joined a very damaging cult and so I have been able to spot similiarities that some others might not spot.

But of course if the bopo movement helps someone feel good about themselves and accept their body, that is fantastic and I do think the movement originally started to help people. I don't see anything sinister in the fact that many members of the movement are trying to help other women feel good about themselves. That would be silly. I am talking about the movement at its extremes.

I agree to an extent.

I know someone who put on quite a lot of weight after an illness and became very active in the BoPo community online. They were embraced initially but once they expressed a desire to lose weight they were almost instantly shunned.

I'm all for BoPo but that should include weight loss if that's what you want, rather than having it shoved down your neck (sorry) that the only reason you want to lose weight is because of a toxic diet culture created by men. Surely a woman saying that she wants to lose weight to feel better should be greeted with as much positivity as a woman who says she is happy as she is? Any mention of weight loss is greeted with a monologue about how you shouldn't have to make yourself smaller to fit in with patriarchal standards.

I think it's great to have confidence no matter what size you are, but the glorification and normalisation of extremes doesn't sit well with me. Probably because I've had my own issues in the past and the reality of dealing with a lot of excess weight is much, much less positive in reality than it appears online. So while I have time for the concept, I agree that the movement is problematic and I don't have much time for it.

However I see the body positive movement as celebrating those of us who don't look like models. Such as people like me who are short (5 foot 2). I don't think it's about celebrating unhealthy behaviours.

But maybe I've misinterpreted the movement?

I think I'm just looking at the extreme parts of it. If you lurk on IG it is there. It has definitely moved beyond 'love yourself' into 'if you find yourself gaining, that is completely neutral, have another piece of cake.'

That's not bad advice if you're 9 stone and recovering from anorexia. It's terrible if you're 24 stone.

And fyi, I would replace the message with 'if you're gaining, get some more support if you need more support. Improve your cooking skills if you've never learnt how to cook delicious, healthy food.' Obesity is very complex and so that of course is pretty rubbish advice for all sorts of people if they're living in poverty or working shifts or living miles from a decent supermarket. I don't want to minimise that. But self-care to my mind isn't 'eat more cake!' It's 'get some good help or make some changes.'

I think it is dangerous ground, though, when obesity is demonised.

People need a certain amount of self confidence to be able to be brave enough to get out there and exercise in public. Added to this low self esteem can be a huge factor in terms of disordered eating.

Yes, people ultimately need to take control of their weight themselves but a blame culture which punishes people and makes them feel bad instead of supporting them, IMO is not the way to go.

I mean what other health condition is treated with such judgement?

It's a pity you have to couch your comments by blaming men and using the old obesity crisis bit...this issue is so much more complex and relevant for societal development and mental healththat it's a shame you need to book it down to buzzword based causes that actually really aren't relevant

You're more than welcome to put across a differeng view but I think we'll have to agree to differ on that. I'm not an expert. It's just my opinion. Being overweight ruined a large portion of my life. I was addicted to junk food. Companjes sell us crap food to make a profit. They don't care about bringing people pleasure, for example. It suits them to make their products very sweet and get you hooked.

I still have a few pounds to lose but the only way I could recover from being obese was to completely give up junk food. And when I did, normal healthy food suddenly became satisfying and tasty after years of being bland. I eat a really good diet now and still eat a decent amount. But it's pretty much all natural, unprocessed food. People don't sometimes want to know that because junk is their comfort. But that's my story. My health improved so much for cutting out junk.

Clearly, as a bigger person, I kept eating junk food even though I hated being big. Why? Why didn't I have control. I am a strong-willed person. It's because my brain told me it would make me happy. And if you think about it, people are literally paying to be fat. You hand over your money, buy cheap sugar which gives you a few seconds of pleasure and then gain weight. The food repeated tells you it will make you happy. That's a lie. The companies are aware of that. It is a capitalist issue. To my mind it's a misogynistic one too because women seem particularly likely to overeat if they're unhappy.

Absolutely happy to say it's more complex than that, but it is a big part of the obesity crisis. People wouldn't be overweight if it was simple not to be.

I think it is dangerous ground, though, when obesity is demonised

Totally agree with you and I hope my op makes it clear I am not advocating that is how sociey treats this issue. Obesity is an illness. Obese people deserve far more support from the NHS for one. I received practically none.

I think in someways it would be nice if fat were celebrated for what it actually is - an energy store. It allows us to go for hours between meals. Otherwise we would have to be eating a lot. We wouldn't have time to obtain and prepare the food if we didn't have this sort of storage facility. We wouldn't be able to rest. It is amazing stuff.

Added to this I've paid for this fat store, I want to get some good use out of it!

I initially found it to be a brilliant idea back when 'thinspo' was out and 'fitspo' was in and it was very much 'healthy not skinny' also a lot of Instagram posts with the reality type pictures where people don't suck in tums and still look healthy and happy without an unachievable look.... but it seems to be spiralling from encouraging healthy attitudes to almost encouraging unhealthy habits. I say that from someone who was overweight for 30 years then far too skinny and ill, so healthy weight but soft in the middle!

Nah, own your opinions. You can't dress this up about a concern about misogyny.
Look at your title.
You sound like, you either don't like yourself very much or you're in a healthy eating/weight loss bubble and you now think everyone should be like you.
Body positivity= loving yourself for who you are despite what you look like. Everyone is entitled to self esteem. That is it.

Can you link to some examples? I follow several body positive accounts with huge followings and I’ve never seen the kinds of messages you reference. It makes me wonder if you’re misinterpreting them.

Nah, own your opinions. You can't dress this up about a concern about misogyny.
Look at your title.
You sound like, you either don't like yourself very much or you're in a healthy eating/weight loss bubble and you now think everyone should be like you.

It's ok. I can live with you not getting what I'm saying. Plenty of other people get it. This has nothing to do with if I like myself or not. (I do, though it's taken a long time for me to get here) Not everyone should be like me at all, either. I think people are healthy at a fairly wide range of sizes. I will never be a size 8 alas, having once been very big and personally I'm very overweight at a 14, when many others aren't. What a boring place the world would be if we were all the same. The only way I want people to be like me is in the sense that I've mostly cracked some food issues which were making me miserable and that's a nice place to be. Compulsive overeating is miserable.

Body positivity= loving yourself for who you are despite what you look like. Everyone is entitled to self esteem. That is it.

Great. I completely agree with you. I've not said the opposite anywhere here. My issue is with the bopo movement, not individuals who are overweight.

Sure help

Here's one. This is from the IG account 'laurathomasphd' She has a book coming out. Lots of page is wonderful - supportive and positive. But this message looks like it's repeated a fair bit.

There is a lot of lovely supportive stuff on this account. I can only repeat there are aspects of the bopo message which are great. I think this image has been posted in the context of someone's worth and from that point of view, I agree. Gaining a bit of weight means zilch.

But this message when looked at against the fact that losing a large amount of weight leads to an 87% reduction in certain cancers? Suddenly there's a problem. Morbid obesity doesn't lead to the happiest healthiest life that people deserve to have.

And here you can see the message extend to 'some women have penises' which the bopo community pushes pretty heavily to the point of young teens being told they're bigots if they don't swallow this idea. It's not this one account pushing this by any means.

I put my hands up actually OP, I did find your initial post simplistic and apologies I judged far too quickly as I've seen from your later posts you have genuinely thought it through and you have some good points which have made me sit back and think

I struggle with posters who simplistically blame the "obesity crisis" and use it as an automatic given without considering the sociological impulses that lead to eating...you absolutely have and I am happy to admit I was wrong

As you saw by my post I agree with you in principle and you have an excellent point about the paying for the weight gain and the short term gratification....thabks actually you termed it in a way that's made me think a bit more

I do still struggle with the misogyny aspect....what are your thoughts then around why it's misogynistic...i struggle with that because I honestly feel it's attacking men as well as women and I really don't feel it's a genuine reflection that men are solely in charge of food companies and marketing?

I am genuinely interested as I've found your comments since really interesting...definayely food for thought (honestly not a pun sorry!)

Yes. I'm a bit sick as well of the "look at this (very) plus size model, she's so beautiful and if you don't agree then its just your conditioning and you are fat shaming blah blah". Well no, I don't find that attractive and I don't have to!

I'm a plus size model. But to me body positive is taking an interest in your body - so doing some exercise, eating your veg, getting your smear test done etc etc. More health at every size?
I do think everyone has the right to love their own body no matter what size, but I struggle when you can visibly see it is affecting health so Tess was mentioned earlier. If you can't get up off the floor, that's an issue
But a lot of people comment how it's nice to see what a dress would look like on them, rather than the "average" model
I'm a 14 bottom, 16 top and 5ft 10

You're definitely basing your opinions on the more eextreme examples. I think the body positivity movement has issues talking about health and healthiness because so many doctors are so fucking rude about fat people. I'm obese, but I'm much healthier than I was when I was less fat. I have a more balanced diet, I exercise more. Yes, the fat is problematic for my organs and heart, but it's not as if fat=unhealthy as a blanket rule. When I was smaller and living off fried food and takeaway, I bet I was "unhealthier" as a whole than now. I think that's where most of these body positivity posters come from, a place of frustration with the medical industry and the assumption that all fat people are unhealthy.

(You're not helping your cause talking about some body positivity accounts celebrating trans people. Its not related at all to your other arguments.)

The only reason weight comes under scrutiny is because it’s visible. And I wish this faux concern would cease. Fat positivity exists as a backlash against fat shaming. Cease fat shaming, and the more militant edges of this will surely cease too.

Fat positivity exists as a backlash against fat shaming. Cease fat shaming, and the more militant edges of this will surely cease too
Stop calling all mentions of weight fat shaming for a start, might help.

It’s not faux concern, it is concern based on the reality around. Two of my nieces are now paying as the have become over 40, all their illness are obesity related to the point that the illnesses now stand in the way of losing weight and for one can no longer work. Both are waiting for bypass surgery. There is a programme on the iplayer called obesity- post mortem. The lady died of heart problems but on the programme it becomes clear that all her organs were being destroyed by fat.