To expect STBXH to respond more quickly to simple questions?

[ScoobyCan]

CHSESTBXH (can't happen soon enough soon to be ex husband) and I haven't had a civil conversation since I chucked him out for unreasonable behaviour last year. Emotional and financial abuse / control amongst other things. Oh, and he decided August was the month to stop maintenance payments so I've had to go to CMS.

We have two DCs. I put forward on a quarterly basis the EOW plan, and he has generally accepted the dates (by not replying....) however if ever I have a question about times / drop off / pick up and I Whatsapp him, he can take days to reply despite reading the message.

MN has been awesome in teaching me the "grey rock" technique, my goodness thank you mumsnetters - it helps me daily, but is it THAT difficult for him to respond yes or no within minutes of receiving a message? Why does he take three days? Is he really going to carry on being this petty?

Any hope that I had for civil and effective co-parenting just flies out of the window each time he does this. He recently suggested via his solicitor a JSM. On my birthday. He finally sent his slimline Form E through (first deadline was end of last year) on our son's birthday. He won't have a civil conversation with me, but he is showing himself up to be mean spirited, spiteful, vindictive, and although I work hard to let it all go, it shouldn't have to be like this.

Am I being unreasonable to think he should just get over himself and respond, so we can move forward in our co-parenting? Or will it always be this way? Any tips or advice would be really welcome.

Scoobycan

In your position I’d be getting the Friday pick up sorted and saying drop of Sunday every week at 6

Then why would you ever need to contact him for times dates etc?

If he asks for a swap your knee jerk answer is...oh I have plans I’ll have to see what I can do or if they can be changed- I’ll let you know. That then gives you time to think and react to any request

You should only be communicating via email, not via texts. You do not need to 'discuss' EOW contact, always the same time, always the same place, one parent does pick up, other does drop off. Do not change these arrangements even if he is driving past your front door.

Make school holiday contact dates at least a year in advance, email them to him writing, "If you need to change any of these dates get back to be before x date, otherwise they are agreed".

Barring emergencies never change what you have agreed. And whether you like it or not you cannot co-parent with their father, you now have to parent separately, and have no communication with him.

@Walkingdeadfangirl

Gosh. That's a bit of a punch in the gut of reality. I think I truly believed there was a possibility to "co-parent" but ironically I'm divorcing him for unreasonable behaviour. Why kid myself that his behaviour will change simply because we are no longer together?

He was a deceitful, emotionally controlling and manipulative person when we were married. I'm naive to think this will ever change.

Sorry for the distinctly late response to everyone - I have taken on board your comments and suggestions and, as the new school year approaches, I will formulate an annual spreadsheet. It came as a bit of a reality check that actually I can't expect anything other than shit from him from now on in until the children are of an age where they can make their own decisions.

Thanks everyone. X

I had a calendar on A4 that highlighted my weekends and his weekends. I gave XH a copy thinking it might be useful to him.

He told everyone that I gave him a list of when he was or wasn’t allowed to see DC. Twat.

He’s never had DC in the holidays, refuses to have them yet tells others that I won’t let him.

You can’t argue with stupid.

I agree, just present him with facts. XYZ will happen if I haven’t heard by ZZ hour.

When he stopped contact then threatened to go for custody, he said via his solicitor that he couldn’t be expected to reply to an email within a week.

Best thing to do is ignore and present facts to him as and when.

Scooby I can understand the gut wrench. It’s uosetting to realise that you can’t have a good coparenting relationship. Maybe there was a part of you that was thinking that he’d be more reasonable because it would be best for the DC, but he’s not that type of man - otherwise you’d probably have found a way to make it work with him.

Sorry you’re having to deal with this. It will get easier as time goes on and you get into a set routine.

I also have a deceitful, controlling and manipulative ex-husband. My children are in their late teens now so not so relevant but he used to pick them up on a Saturday morning and return them on a Sunday evening every other weekend - so he had them for two nights a month :-/ We used Google calendar so all the dates were on there and if a weekend had to be swapped because of his or my work, we'd have to deal with each other by e-mail. But he was unhelpful and abusive in his e-mails. I wish I'd known about the grey rock earlier.

@TheBlueDot - it's a wake up call, certainly. What you've written is how I feel - I've been kidding myself for a year now that things could be civil between us now that we are separated. When in fact what has happened is that all the nasty traits and characteristics I glimpsed and didn't like, are now very much available to view and experience.

The highlighted calendar and his lies must have been hard @sprinklesandsauce - initially he told his family I wasn't allowing him to see the DC. Ironically he favours one over the other so if the favoured child was unavailable he wouldn't see either....

@fedupandnogin - it's tough to live alongside such a person and until I chucked him out I had no idea as to the extent of his deceit. Turns out he has lied from the get go. I checked out of the marriage a few years back but removing this parasite from our lives last year has been such a relief. Do your DC still see your ex?

Just as an aside - I see how EOW can be planned annually, do you also include the school holiday / half term splits a year in advance?

Yes. Plan it all. You lose flexibility but you get rid of all his crap.

@Scoobycan yes it is a relief to get rid of someone that is so controlling but it was also very hard as he'd been having an affair. And breaking up my family was very hard for me. Yes they still see him. He liaises with them mostly and I don't have much to do with him. I'd love to have been able to co-parent in a nice way and discuss issues that the boys are dealing with but he is so negative and aggressive and would end up blaming me and making me feel guilty, I've given up.

Thanks @ivykaty44 - I have tried this. He then just waits until the 11th hour to respond which is also hugely frustrating.

So bring the 11th hour forward. "Provided you confirm by 6 p.m tomorrow, I will bring the DC to you at 4 p.m. on Thursday. If you don't confirm by then, I will be making other arrangements."

That’s what I suggested Guienne, op needs to “manage” the situation so that the ex doesn’t realise he’s being managed 😉 but ultimately op gets an answer when she needs the answer by.

I think some of the procrastination over answering a message is just their complete ineptitude over organising life as a non resident parent and very little to do with wanting to affect the resident parent. Most non resident parents have been used to the other parent picking up all the organisation and are not used to having to do this work themselves.

Sorry Guinness I thought it but didn’t post ☺️ My mistake

I’d agree the holiday dates in advance too. It means you lose flexibility in booking holidays, but you also remove the source of stress.

Who provides childcare in the holidays? Factor that in to the planning too.

It’s hard to be regimented and not have flexibility. I find that when I’m really flexible with my ex, he’ll start pushing for more. At that point I have to re-set and go back to no flexibility. You may find the same, where things get more flexible over time and you have to reconsider every so often.

Yes unfortunately you have to say goodbye to flexibility, just imagine the power you would give him over you if he had an effective veto over every holiday you want to go on.

Try and make the holiday split as fair as possible so if he doesn't like week 1 of the holidays he gets week 2, there should be no other alternatives. Don't get into arguing the toss about individual days.

If he decides to play silly buggers half way through the year you have to say NO, he wont have a leg to stand on with solicitors if you have been clear via email about the dates.

When you know the holiday contact arrangements a year in advance you can then book holidays and he doesn't even need to know about it.

After the first year is confirmed, the next is easier because you are just replicating the pattern. And look forward to when DC are 12-14 when they are old enough to decide for themselves.

Aaaah mine are 11 and 8 and already we are reaching don't want to see Dad phase. Relief.

I had a lot of advice from police and women's aid. Bottom line is you can offer and facilitate all the bits and bobs to allow him to be a good father. And when he doesn't bother time and time again, when are you going to admit that enough is enough. ?

It is not my responsibility for him to be a dad. I will not facilitate him when he fails. Yes I have to pick up the pieces with my children but I will do so quietly so that if he ever gets his shit in order, they can say, "Oh, Dad has his shit in order. Cool. "

I remember when before divorce, when it was all heavy and horrid, he decided he wanted to switch His week night contact. This meant more childcare was needed over my working hours. So I said he needed to pay the childminder. OMG Ww3 broke out as she was MY childminder. When I pointed out his fiancée (affair) didn't actually work so he didn't need childcare, he got even more aggressive, refused stuff, made the children distraught.

I swear it isn't worth the brain power.
Set your times and dates and do not deviate. They cannot be flexible, accommodating or the father you desperately want them to be.

I am about 7 years into this with my ex. He pulls all the same crap. Doesn't reply to even the most straightforward texts. Has months without paying child maintenance. Fucks around on the one day a week he has the kids and quite often suggests I bring them round later than agreed or collect them earlier. I drop them off and collect them. There is more, too much to list, but all done in an attempt to carry on controlling me. I do my best not to rise to any of it but sometimes I lose my shit with him and he loves it.
What is the grey rock thing? Sounds like I need it.

Crystalmazing

Why if you’re dropping of or collecting would you not just say No can’t do that, but if it’s not convenient for you why not skip a visit & see them next time

XH has always refused to have DC in the holidays “because he has to work” .... like I don’t?!...

He sees DC when it suits him, I get about 2 days notice. It is sometimes 4 weeks, sometimes 8, even 13 weeks between visits. He says it is “my way or not at all”. I want to tell him to piss off but won’t be the one that stops contact with DC

Sprinklesandsauce your poor children, fancy having such a twat for a Dad 😪😧

My ex is a twat an emotionally abusive, vindictive lier. He believes his own lies 100% and when he is caught out he plays the poor me victim card (which he is scarily good at)
We went through court and arranged a CTO. He never stuck by it but I covered for him always. I thought we worked together to co parent civilly. I was so flexible when is came to visits. (I would cancelled stuff so he could see dd because I didn't know when it would next happen.)
We ended up back at court, he tried to throw me under the bus. Blamed everyone else but himself. And even blamed his own lawyer at one point 😂
After that is realised sometimes there is just no co parenting with some people.
My flexibility is now zero. Almost every request is met with no. And every communication in written in text.
Some parents care more about their needs than what is best for the child

I would say keep a paper trail as best you can.
Grey rocking is wonderful.
And even if/when you manage to co parent well never leave yourself vulnerable.

@CrystalMazing - grey rock is the way you respond to emotionally manipulative twits. If you only ever respond blandly, with a monotonous and boring phrase that you repeat each time they contact you, they soon become bored of trying to manipulate and effectively find another target. The "grey rock" is a metaphor to suggest you treat them like every other grey rock / pebble / stone on the beach, and don't react to their poking.

At least that's how I understand it. I'm sorry you had to go through such a time of it.

@sprinklesandsauce that sounds horrendous. Why can these men not see past their own noses and instead think shout the children? I give up trying to bother understanding why on Earth the children are not his priority. Although I self-flagellate - they never were.....

@StressedToTheMaxx - exactly this. I nearly went for a coffee with him to just explore options. My solicitor said he would lead me down the garden path of words and reassurance and then twist everything to his own advantage and to my detriment. This is absolutely right - he twists EVERYTHING. And he has lied for so long even I believed him. For over a decade. I'm very aware that in court he will present as a traditional family man who was trying to do the best for his family however he slipped up. He will undoubtedly say I put pressure on him financially. Had he been truthful about it all from the start I would have known our limits and would have stuck to them. He essentially brought two children into the world with the knowledge that he couldn't afford them. Had I known that, things would have been managed - by me - differently. It is all such a mess.

You'll never successfully coparent with this sort of man. He will always use the children to control and punish you. I'm 7 years out of the relationship and he still tries to play games. I just get on with life.

@ScoobyCan thank you