to think paedo hunter gangs aren't necessarily a good thing?

[GhostPerfume]

I am torn on this. I have a lot of friends who share these posts on facebook, I have never shared them and do not follow their pages.

I was sexually abused by a teacher growing up - I am in no way a paedophile sympathiser AT ALL. Just before someone comes on and flames me!

What worries me is the families of these people - they are often filmed at their family home. Also I tend not to watch the videos of the "stings" that people share but I watched one today as it was very local to me. The gang seemed to have a huge stack of evidence and they apprehended the suspect and called the police. It is what happened after that I am struggling with. They then spent the whole time until the police came repeatedly goading the offender. They kept repeating "We won't hurt you unless you hurt us/run away" But I felt like they were goading them into that. 4 of them standing round shouting and swearing, shouting if they didn't answer, then if they did answer they mocked the answer and said it was the wrong thing to have said. There is NOTHING the suspect can do to justify their actions, (rightly,they often admit it and there is no way they can have any reason)

Members of the public who comment saying to stop shouting and swearing in public get a mouthful from the gang threatening to put their faces on the live facebook feed, and whipping up crazy levels of anger from those watching online who then make threats to the passers by.

The gang seem to be made up of people who have had no official training at all.

On the other hand these "stings" often do result in prosecutions of the offender. The police do not have the man power/resources to do all this work. But the way they go about it really is getting OTT, swaggering about shouting "we are on a sting FUCK off anyone who doesn't agree is a paedo sympathiser"

I can share the link to the one that was near me that I mean where they seemed to be repeatedly goading the man into wanting him to fight so they could have a reason to batter him. Not sure if I am allowed to share the link. (The man was admitting it and IMO is an utterly VILE human who deserves prison) but they could have stood quietly with him while waiting for police instead it was them screaming and shouting and causing a huge scene.

Raped that should be btw

I would love to see more done about paedophiles and child abusers. If someone with a genuine expertise in something that might be useful to the police in these matters wanted to volunteer their services I would hope that something could be arranged. But that does not mean gangs of ill informed violent people taking the law into their own hands.

I'll probably get a lot of grief for this post, but here we go anyway.

I have a problem with the way people don't distinguish between paedophiles and child molesters. Child molesters are criminals who absolutely deserve punishment. Paedophiles are people who have sexual attraction to children, usually because they were molested themselves in childhood. Not all paedophiles are (or ever will be) child molesters. Many people have sexual fantasies that they would never act on in reality.

Vigilant groups promote the stigmatisation of paedophiles. If there was not so much stigma then more paedophiles would seek professional support, treatment and alternative outlets for their desires that do not harm children. This would then reduce the number of paedophiles "going underground" and becoming child molesters.

"There are people who are tasked with doing this professionally for a living, leave it to them." Problem is they don't have the resources.

"and if the police were sufficiently funded, it wouldn’t be necessary." I appreciate what you're trying to say here - the difficulty is there are SO many of them I think it would be impossible to ever be able to provide enough resources, particularly when frequently it's the SAME criminals being caught, convicted, serving woefully low sentences, released, re-offend, get caught etc etc

Vigilantism is understandable, but shouldn't be condoned.

Poor evidence gathering/contamination can result in guilty parties escaping conviction.

All that said, it really pisses me off that police work so hard to correctly collect evidence, catch these creeps, provide enough evidence to ensure a conviction - and then they get pathetic sentences from judges, I believe either due to the judges having little experience of the real world and the LIFELONG damage these creeps do, or because the judges are wrongly believing rape/Csa myths, or I believe in admittedly probably a minority of cases they share the "tastes" of these creeps.

And yes I know also it's partly to do with sentencing guidelines, but they're decided by govt, ie politicians who want to get re-elected. I wish instead of simply venting eg here, those of us who want the sentencing improved could properly sensibly co-operate and lobby govt for stronger sentencing for these type of criminals.

They have among the highest recidivism rates, if nothing else the longer they're in jail, the fewer people they can hurt/pose a threat to, the less resources needed to convict them - again!

Personally I'd lock em up for life! Yes, mainly as I don't want them able to do more harm, but also pragmatically I can't help but think it MUST be cheaper to keep them locked up, expensive though that may be, than to spend money catching and convicting them AGAIN, possibly REPEATEDLY, AND paying to provide medical and mental health support to victims, possibly including their being on benefits long term if they're unable to work as a result of the effects.

YeTalkShiteHen - similar has happened near me - again another reason to keep them locked up, not having to spend money finding somewhere they can live and possibly ending up policing their protection (which sticks in my throat frankly!). Re offender who's downloaded photos being allowed near school - because it's (wrongly imo) seen as a "lesser" offence, as if he's 'not a real paedo'.

There's also the "doth protest too much" argument, what better way to create distraction from your own tendencies? To have an excuse to go on certain sites and view images/videos?

Ionacat - sorry I just don't believe even with umpteen resources any probation service can truly prevent these people from offending. At the very least with modern tech they can easily access online pics/videos even if they supposedly aren't allowed access to Internet.

The police officers commenting - what would you do about the current situation in the U.K. With paedophiles? Particularly re sentencing/recidivism? You're the ones on the front line seeing what's really the problems - what would you have done to at least reduce the harm they do?

The attraction to children is possibly a mh issue - acting on that is a choice.

Anyone who willingly surrounds themselves with child abuse when that's not their job is a wrong un

I know 2 people who do this, one is a scam artist, in it to make money and the other comes across like a fucking nonce himself

Very very unsavory people ime

They are often dodgy. There was one near me recently. I didn't know the man but I knew lots of people who did. They have no idea if he has done anything but he has lost his job etc.
But, I always worry about the 'find my long-long sister/friend/cousin' posts on social media. My friend is a social worker and saw an ad for an abused wife who was living in a shelter. She didn't know if the guy was her ex husband but suspected he was

They're the type of folk who think Tommy Robinson was arrested for 'just having an opinion'.

They probably have zero issue breaking the laws themselves (just like Tommy Robinson) and yet think their single brain cell means they can take the law into their own hands when it suits them.

If someone has information relating to a suspected child sex offender then it should be passed to the police. The fact they don't do that and instead put stuff all over social media tells you they are more about pretending to be hard men getting likes on social media than protecting children.

I have seen the other side where there was a case of mistaken identity. Police took all electronics and there was no evidence.

They had plastered his picture and home address all over Facebook. He had to move far away as even when the charges were dropped, people still yelled out at him.

Due to his partner being a teacher, she had to distance herself. As a result, he lost her and her family, including two of her grandchildren he watched grow up and was basically part of their family. Unfortunately while the family knows he has not been charged with anything the stigma is there, and they cannot risk the association due to their jobs.

Last I heard he has been diagnosed with cancer and is effectively battling it alone, as he has no other family and had to move away from any friends. He also lost his job over the manhunt, as his reputation was destroyed by Chinese whispers so he felt he couldn't return.

This has happened a couple of times recently in my small town. All filmed and streamed live on facebook. I think its horrendous tbh. Some of these suspects have grown children who first become aware of the issue when it is splashed all over facebook. Its awful. Leave it to the police.

There's two groups of hunters covering where I am. They only post online once the police have their conviction. I'm happy with that. They caught one who lived a stones throw from my son's infant school.

On my house. When I pointed out it was my house they said I was lying and one charmer said I was covering for the paedo and should be taped to feel what the kids feel. Had to call the cops and luckily it was dealt with quickly.

And that sums them up imo.

No one who abhors abuse would ever suggest raping another innocent person in a bid for some sort of justice.

That’s definitely a “doth protest to much” group with that reaction.

I definitely think they're a bad thing. We have a criminal justice system for a reason, I don't trust these vigilantes to conduct a proper investigation to make sure they've got the right person, they're more interested in their own motivations for the most part.

Police detective here. These groups are, at best, a pain in the arse and at worst bloody dangerous

Police constable here and what she said.

I had to deal with one a few months ago, there’s a strict protocol that needs following if a conviction is going to happen. In our case once the 20-strong crowd wearing hoodies with their ‘group’ logo on had finished with their ‘capture’ and ‘citizen arrest’ along with live streaming on Facebook, they mostly all fucked off.

The only one that rocked up to give a statement was the woman who had been the decoy. To be fair she was a nice woman, and had been acting with genuine intentions. But the leaders hadn’t told her she’d have to surrender her electronic devices or anything like that, so she didn’t have them. And some of the printouts were borderline commiting offences themselves.

I have no idea what happened as safeguarding dealt with it after we took our one lonely statement. It’s a shame if it didn't on technicalities though as he was definitely communicating inappropriately with the ‘girl’

Sorry but I find it hard to distinguish between child molesters and paedophiles.
By their very nature they abuse children and destroy their lives.

Both words make me sick and I would put them in the same category as a monster.

@Zoflorabore It sounds to me like you don't understand what a paedophile is. It is a mental disorder. Calling all paedophiles child abusers is like calling all schizophrenics serial killers. SOME people with MH conditions become offenders as a result of their condition, but for the majority they suffer with terrible symptoms and social stigma and cause no harm to anyone else; they are victims of a disorder that is outside of their control and usually at least partially caused by having experienced childhood abuse.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia?wprov=sfti1

& just to clarify, I am absolutely not standing up for child molesters, they deserve their punishments, but I don't believe it's fair to stigmatise mentally ill people who have done no harm!

Little kitty- I get what you are saying but struggle with how you compare a paedophile with a schizophrenic.

I absolutely do not see it as a mental disorder at all. It sounds like you're making excuses here.

There are no excuses to abuse and rape children. Ever.

It is not a mental health condition, it’s a sexual orientation.

Absolutely nothing like mental illness, and your comparison with schizophrenia was incredibly offensive.

Glad I'm not the only one struggling with that comparison Yetalkshitehen

I've just looked at the link above and it's very much American and bears no resemblance to our definition of MH disorders ( I am a statistic of this ) and I can just imagine a person applying for ESA/PIP putting that down on a medical form-
Oh yes doctor I have a bad back and am a paedophile.... bullshit.

It's extremely insulting to the many hundreds of thousands of people who have very real and debilitating MH conditions to think that "paedophile" is classed as a condition like BPD etc.

You sound a little too invested in your claims

From what I have seen, they bait a paedo online, who snaps and grooms the bait, travels with the intention of fucking a 13 year old, then get arrested. Seems pretty clear to me they are handing genuine paedos over to the law.

The real issue is the police do not have the resources to deal with it.

Paedophilic disorder is listed in the DSM as is BPD etc so it is considered a mental disorder.

Someone committing sexual offences against children isn't necessarily a paedophile.

saggital That's a simplistic version of events that you have posted. It's not like that in reality.

I execute search warrants frequently for indecent images of children. Like a PP said, no matter how many resources you gave there will never be enough.

And these groups use up vital resources because they cause disturbances and mob mentality.

Child molistors are the criminals, pedophiles are simply people who are attracted to children (they might have not ever commited a crime but they ARE attracted to children and they cannot help that but there is no support to prevent any offending)

I am not defending child moliestors but you are not getting the pictures pedophiles are not criminal until they have commited a crime (pedophile simply means sexually attracted to children).

And what the past post meant was a large number of murderers are committed by schizophrenics (as in its the reason they committed the crime) but not all schizophrenics ARE murderers.

For some stupid reason we as a nation have mixed up the terminogoloy CHILD MOLESTERS can be paedophiles but not ALL peadophiles are child molesters since there are ones out there that admit they have a problem (aka they are sexaully attracted to children but have committed no crime THEIR is ZERO support at all for this group)

If their was support for the sick people BEFORE they committed a CRIME there would be less offences but because people no asocaited pedoehpile = child rapist they tar people that have these thoughts yet not acting upon so have committed no crime can not go get support to prevent them from committing a crime. Like their is for schizophrenics whom seek help when their illness suggests they need to kill / hurt offers.

Child molesterstors / rapists are mostly padeophiles but not all pedophiles are child molestertors (because AGAIN all pedoplhile means is attracted to children).

So before you go on a massive rant about how deeply offensive the termonogly actually learn what the words mean and the context they are said.

Because FACT schizophrenics make up a overlly large % of serieal Killers does this mean all schizophrenics are murderers ? No it does not and there is support for schizophrenics to prevent them hurting others.

Pedophila is a mental condistion because it is bloody wrong on so many levels but if they were given treatment and support like people suffering from schizophrenia they would be less likely to commit a offence in the first place.

I mean before they commit any crime as soon as they cross the line and offend lock them in prsion and throw away the key. What i am talking about is the group (of both male and female whom are attracted to children to be able too recivie help for their perversion before they offend).

I actually agree with you @worridmum, the term 'ophile' simply means they have a sexual attraction to 'X' - necrophile, pyrophile, etc etc.

They are not necessarily criminals until they act on that attraction and abuse someone. Up until that point the attraction is all in their head and it is at that stage when it is potentially treatable. They could avoid progressing to the next stage where they hurt someone else if they are given access to appropriate therapy and so on but in our society I'm willing to bet virtually 0% of people who have these internal attractions and desires (even though they may know they are sick and wrong) would even attempt to get help for fear of being branded a criminal. Even if they did there really doesn't appear to be much available anyway. There isn't exactly an AA type setting for pedophiles.