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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Community Libraries

66 replies

Aprilsinparis · 19/08/2018 11:43

AIBU to want to know what happens to the staff who were previously employed by the council to run these libraries, once they are handed over to be run by volunteers.

OP posts:
SeamstressfromTreacleMineRoad · 19/08/2018 12:19

They're made redundant 😡

longwayoff · 19/08/2018 12:45

They are tied up together in a back room and slowly starved to death. Then the bones are thrown to the ranging packs of scavenging dogs leaving no trace at all of the former librarians.

Original poster
Aprilsinparis · 19/08/2018 16:52

Blimey, longwayoff I was only askingShock

OP posts:
JennyBlueWren · 19/08/2018 16:54

Redundant or redeployed

jenthelibrarian · 19/08/2018 17:02

Some poor innocent once asked me if I'd like to help train the volunteers for their village 'library'.
I came over rather Malcolm Tucker and they didn't ask a second time.

longwayoff · 19/08/2018 17:05

Sorry april didn't mean to alarm you. Think I've read too many books. Save our libraries and librarians.

Kazzyhoward · 19/08/2018 17:05

They closed our village library and all the staff were redeployed in nearby ones - there were no redundancies.

DuelingFanjo · 19/08/2018 17:07

As a trained Librarian it is really upsetting to see what has become of libraries in the UK. They are much better served by professionals than by volunteers. It is lovely that people are willing to volunteer but the provision has declined with the cuts and there really is no substitute for a good librarian.

Cachailleacha · 19/08/2018 17:10

I've had a problem with reserving books online that are at one of the community libraries in my county. They often take weeks to send the book to my local library, or don't at all, so there is the situation of a few people waiting for the one copy that is not at a community library, while two other copies are just sitting on shelves. So, they just do not work as well with volunteers as with paid staff.

JulianOfNorwich · 19/08/2018 17:17

Well said Dueling. I don't know why they think they can just replace trained and experienced professional librarians or library assistants with volunteers.
It's like saying, let's replace all teachers and TAs with volunteers.
I am so opposed to volunteer- run libraries. The volunteers are well intentioned. They think they are 'saving' the libraries but really they are just facilitating their quiet demise. Volunteer led services rarely last long- volunteers cannot commit for years and there is no investment in new stock, they can't offer a council wide reservation service, there isn't enough staff expertise etc etc etc but the council have washed their hands of them by the time they close for good.

Thirtyrock39 · 19/08/2018 17:19

I'm in two minds wit this
When our library became a volunteer run library I was annoyed that alll the willing volunteers meant the library technically stayed open so that the council could make all the cuts in staffing without the upset of library closures
I also imagined the volunteers would dry up pretty quickly
On the whole the library has worked quite well volunteer led interns of groups and a few new initiatives they've started up
However the basic service is nowhere near as good as with paid librarians- the amount of mistakes I've had with my account and constant false charges, books not being scanned in as returned- I frequently find books on the shelves which are still on my card do I do r have a huge amount of faith with it
When possible I go into town for the big library staffed by paid staff

NerrSnerr · 19/08/2018 17:21

Our village has a community library. I didn't live here when it was council run so can't compare it.

As a community hub it's brilliant. It runs baby groups, adult education, the youth centre, holiday activities and everyone who volunteers is local so does make you feel part of something.

As a library it's a bit shit. The volunteers are poorly trained and take forever to manoeuvre the IT systems and at busy times you're queuing for ages. It's hard to request books and they can't advise on where things are or what you might be looking for.

We support it as our village would be worse off without it but I agree that the volunteers shouldn't replace the professionals.

SummerStrong · 19/08/2018 17:36

Libraries in my area (I work in a library) are slowly getting staffed less & less. As staff leave they are only replaced by temporary contracts, there is less no cover provided for illness and holiday.

The budget cuts are very severe.

Library staff are expected to continue to offer the same service (events, clubs, summer reading challenge etc.) working at minimum staffing levels.

As well as book budget being by cut, there is therefore less new stock (so longer waits for reservations) and a less exciting 'latest releases' shelf.

DVD's, CD's & Games will also be disappearing off our shelves soon.

This means although there are not noticeable redundancies and staff cuts, staff levels are lower than they've ever been. Staff are exhausted and disheartened (can only speak about my own county of course) lots of staff are resigning / retiring & leaving (taking years of knowledge and experience with them).

I have been happy in libraries for years, but am looking for another job.

Data protection issues limit what volunteers can do, and volunteers come and go frequently and can often be unreliable (as they understandable have other priorities in their life).

Original poster
Aprilsinparis · 19/08/2018 17:50

I worked in a library, before and after the self serve machines were introduced. I fully support everything you say DuelingFanjo I think it makes a farce out of all the knowledge people like us had, to be librarians. I think it is really sad the chipping away that has been done to this public service. I fear it's only a matter of time before any libraries that are left, are either closed down, or incorporated into other public buildings.

I have lost touch with the colleagues I used to work with, but I really hope they have not been starved and thrown to the dogs, longwayoffSmile

OP posts:
CasperGutman · 19/08/2018 17:55

It's really tragic. There must be stiff competition for librarian jobs in e.g. universities.

starryeyed19 · 19/08/2018 18:02

Depends on the authority. Some will just outright make staff redundant. Some will cut posts are try and redeploy staff and create gaps by offering early retirement packages etc...

Community libraries are an utter fucking shower.

starryeyed19 · 19/08/2018 18:04

Also, the reasons new initiatives start up is the volunteers aren't as constrained as the staff used to be. I used to have to clear things with

My immediate team
The wider team in the area
My line manager
The library board if money was involved
The manager of the library we wanted the thing to happen in

On top of getting the staff on board. Volunteers can just go ahead and do a thing.

starryeyed19 · 19/08/2018 18:05

Also, public library pay is absolutely fucking shocking.

Womaningreen · 19/08/2018 18:09

In my area, they weren't just made redundant, they had the date changed.

Not for their pay of course, but for the last day, when they were going to exchange gifts etc.

So they all turned up two days before and were told "actually had to close early". It was to prevent a small demo I think. But I'm friends with a former member staff and she said they were all in tears at the nastiness behind that move.

longwayoff · 19/08/2018 18:13

April, they've been treated so contemptibly that nothing would surprise me. I can scarcely believe what we've allowed this country to become. The asset strippers are hard at it and Its barely noticed. Have you still got your library buildings or are they yet to become 'desirable luxury apartments in a period building'?

WYorksLass · 19/08/2018 18:14

I volunteer at our local library and i’m bloody good at it. But quite a few of the volunteers are not and it’s really frustrating.
If it want for the volunteers the library would be shut down.

However, it is a hybrid library and always has a paid member of staff on duty alongside 1 or 2 volunteers which works really well.

starryeyed19 · 19/08/2018 18:22

Having paid members of staff alongside volunteers is just a really hard thing to hear. It basically means that the library does need paid professional staff but the council won't pay for them

Womaningreen · 19/08/2018 18:34

I don't use the library any more as clearly it's just a slow way to close it

Also there's a quarter of the books now. I have no idea what they did with them but would guess bin?

TrumpsToddlerTantrums · 19/08/2018 18:36

I went to a reunion of a group I belonged to when I first qualified as a librarian (20+ years ago) of the 12 qualified librarians there, none of us were still working in libraries.

I let my CILIP membership lapse last year, finally admitting that I would never work in a library again. That hasn't been from a lack of trying in public, academic and school libraries, but, particularly in public and academic (only short-term contracts on offer), in almost every case the post went to unqualified employees who were at risk of redundancy. I don't begrudge them (much), but it's no longer treated as a skilled profession. Hey, everyone can Google, right?

Conversely, the small library in our small, deprived town is always busy, especially on the PCs, and even more so once the job centre closed. We're lucky that the library has a paid staff, but I do wonder when the axe will fall on this service, and how the users will cope when they can't access the PCs for job searching etc.

librarylove · 19/08/2018 18:40

I posted the following on a thread a few months ago:

"My city was planning to close a number of libraries, but offered some to community groups to run, rather than close them altogether. I am heavily involved in volunteering at one of the libraries, which has been kept open by a local charity.

Don't get me wrong: I absolutely think councils should run libraries, not volunteers. But the thought of losing such a valuable public service in a vulnerable area made some of us step forward to keep it open. Maybe it was a triumph of pragmatism over principle, but the net result is that the library is still open for people to use.

In general it has worked well. We provide access and help with Universal Credit, internet access, homework help, special sessions for children and carers and lots of other things - including access to books, of course. The charity uses the building when it is not open as a library to provide other services to the community.

We'll never run it as well as trained librarians, but we can still help people find information, introduce children to new authors, be company in a warm place for pensioners, and help in lots of other ways. Some of the people who benefit most are the volunteers who learn or refresh skills, and get to mix with other people. I am now heavily regretting not training as a librarian in the first place. I would start training now - except that there are of course no jobs...

I don't think this is the best option - but it is not a bad option, if libraries really are going to close in your area and people will be left with nothing."

I think I stand by most of that, although I might want to emphasise more that we will never be able to replace trained librarians, for whom I have immense admiration. What we do is basically facilitate access to library stock rather than actually run a library. Our council provides the stock, and the professional librarians do help and advise us as much as we need, so we are not making too many of the important decisions that we might stuff up, iyswim.

I do also agree that keeping volunteer-run libraries open is going to be tricky in the longer term, and that the quality of volunteers varies enormously.

The previous librarians were redeployed, btw, not made redundant.