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Original poster

To review my cleaner's employment status - advice needed

24 replies

SundayMorningResearch · 19/08/2018 07:38

I've had a cleaner for 10 years. She does 4 hours once per fortnight and I pay her £40 in cash. She was originally with an agency, but she went independent several years ago. She continued to work for me, but without a contract. I didn't think about this until recently, but now it's bothering me. I've been reading the HMRC website and think that I need to a) verify that she is registered with HMRC as self employed, and b) make sure we have a contract which makes it clear she is self employed. I'm trying to work out how to approach this conversation with her. I think it might help if I had a draft contract to hand. There are companies selling them online but I don't know whether they're any good. Any advice?

OP posts:
DinoGreen · 19/08/2018 07:42

I really don’t think this is something to worry about OP. I’ve never had a contract with a cleaner. They are very obviously self-employed.

MissusGeneHunt · 19/08/2018 07:50

I think it's more for larger businesses who need to demarcate their employees from their contractors. I'd doubt your payment to her would add up to a tax threshold per annum anyway. If you're worried just drop her an email reminding her she's SE and that if applicable she needs to sort her NI and tax out, especially if she has multiple jobs. Perhaps a call to the CAB would help you further?

PositiveAttitude · 19/08/2018 07:57

It is totally on her shoulders to declare her self employment income. There is no come back to you if she has not kept to the rules. Does she do other cleaning jobs as well as yours?

Clairetree1 · 19/08/2018 07:59

i don't think its any of your business, to be honest

Iwantawhippet · 19/08/2018 07:59

We ran through this with our cleaner and reached the conclusion that she was self employed. I wrote a contact for services. It specified what she did and laid out some of the factors that made her self- employed. Afraid I don’t have a copy of our version, but it was a very simple document.

Next cleaner is an employee because she does more hours, fixed time rather than a list of jobs, and can’t send a friend if she isn’t around.

cookiesandchocolate · 19/08/2018 08:02

It's for her to do and you needn't worry about it.
Also as an employee who is paying her less than £115 a week- look on the HMRC website, it states no need to declare if earnings are less than that.
This was told to me by head of HR

theunsure · 19/08/2018 08:03

I have a cleaner, we agree she is self employed but I don’t have any contract. I think you are overthinking this! HMRC are really not that fussed about your cleaner-there barely give a stuff about my BTL (rang them for input on something and they basically said they weren’t bothered).

BIWI · 19/08/2018 08:04

The only thing I'd bother with, if I was bothered, would be the paying cash-in-hand. I'd pay her directly into her bank account, so that there's a clear paper trail. Then it's up to the cleaner to take care of her own tax.

But I wouldn't bother

Original poster
SundayMorningResearch · 19/08/2018 08:04

Yes, she had other clients. I know some of them as I recommended her to them. Not sure if they have contracts.

OP posts:
Original poster
SundayMorningResearch · 19/08/2018 08:04

*has, not had

OP posts:
AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight · 19/08/2018 08:05

As a self-employed person (in a different field) myself, I wouldn't necessarily insist on a contract, but I would make sure she invoices you and if she didn't want to do that I would switch to a cleaner who did.

Iwantawhippet · 19/08/2018 08:11

One more link. This is the HMRC link for working out if someone is self- employed, a worker or an employee.

Clearly dreadful to get this wrong and not pay NI when it should be paid and leave your cleaner without a pension.

www.gov.uk/employment-status

Iwantawhippet · 19/08/2018 08:13

Not suggesting that you’re getting this wrong- sounds like you’re taking it seriously. But I’ve heard the odd story of people having a housekeeper and paying no NI, and completely screwing her over.

TheOxymoron · 19/08/2018 08:24

If you’re worried, you can form an engagement of services contract.

ChikiTIKI · 19/08/2018 08:25

I've never had a cleaner but surely you need a contract that states she will have adequate insurance. What if she left a tap running with the plug in and you didn't get home until several hours later or if she damaged something etc etc...

Have you seen her insurance documents? That would be my main worry. Her tax return is her concern I wouldn't worry about that.

PolkerrisBeach · 19/08/2018 08:26

It is not your responsibility to make sure she's registered as self-employed that's HER responsibility. You don't need a contract. You are over-thinking this hugely.

underneaththeash · 19/08/2018 08:26

It's up to her to tell HMRC, someone who works for you once a fortnight as a cleaner and has other clients is very unlikely to be your employee. If you do want a contract though, she needs to be giving it to you, self-employed people set their own terms and conditions.

CarbieDoll · 19/08/2018 08:30

I don’t know but tbh you wouldn’t get a decent cleaner where I am for less than £13 an hour hope you give her. Xmas bonus op

PolkerrisBeach · 19/08/2018 08:33

an employee who is paying her less than £115 a week- look on the HMRC website, it states no need to declare if earnings are less than that.

Presume you mean EMPLOYER, but either way, this statement is misleading.

OP is not an employer. She is a client, who is asking a self-employed person to provide her with services. Employer is a much more formal arrangement and would totally change the relationship. A cleaner who comes into your home every week doesn't get holiday pay, sick pay, NI paid.

As a self-employed person like the cleaner there is no declaration limit. You have to register as self-employed and have to complete a tax return, even if you only earn £100 over the entire year.

Orchiddingme · 19/08/2018 08:42

If she has other clients, I'm pretty sure shes not your employee and it's not your job to register or declare her earnings, that's her issue.

I wouldn't suddenly check on her HMRC status (can you even do that, for data protection reasons?) and issue her with a contract (she is not your employee) unless you want to get rid of her, round here, good cleaners are like hen's teeth and you don't want to piss them off!

Asef · 28/05/2024 17:34

I would presume that if you are paying her £40 for 4 hours work I would highly doubt she would be registered as self employed. That is below minimum wage and would be impossible to pay N.I, tax, travel, sick pay, holiday or pension. Not to mention living cost especially in this current climate. I would suggest finding a cleaner or raising what your paying to you current cleaner who charges £18-£25 per hour as they are more likely to have what you require as well as insurance and DBS checks. Yes this is expensive but given all the costs of a self employed, qualified cleaner as well as insurance and being registered. This is the price you can expect. You will get what you pay for I'm afraid

Breathingbecominganissue · 28/05/2024 17:38

It wasnt below minimum wage 6 years ago (when it was posted!).

BIWI · 28/05/2024 18:05

@Asef this thread is nearly 6 years old! How on earth did you find it?

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