To think there is always a 'ringleader' in a friendship group?

[LittleMe03]

Dss 13YO was due to go to a local skate park tomorrow with some friends from school. He was really looking forward to it!

An hour ago he told us he had a text from one of the friends in a group message saying they no longer want to do this so it's not happening, but they can meet at the local field to play football instead.

DSS is disappointed but said 'if that's what X wants to do instead then we will all do that'

It brought back memories for me that during my teens my friendship group had a ringleader who made these sort of decisions no matter what any of the friendship group wanted. I wish if I was that age again I would speak up and say 'NO, that's not want I want to do!'

WIBU to say to DSS that he should text the other friends and suggest they should still go to the skate park as planned, if they would rather do that?

I don't want him to fall out with his friends but want him and the other friends to make their own choices (the friendship group is 7 of them)

Should I say something to him about this or keep quiet?

I didn't say anything to him. I guess he needs to grow and learn who true friends are. It just upset me too because as I said, I wish looking back that I had said more to the ringleader of my friendship group

Even as an adult, I suppose I feel there’s an Alpha in my various groups of friends.

@Openup41

Yes we have spoken to him about this fairly recently when X friend was due to come for a sleepover and text him 20 minutes after he was due to arrive that he wasn't coming.

To cheer DSS up we said he could invite another friends instead but warned him it was short notice and might not happen/be ok with the parents.

He never even tried this thou telling us X friend would be upset by this??

X friend sounds like a bully, but what to do!?

I wouldn't agree with 'ringleader'.
I think often there is an organiser. There needs to be, as many people would never get round to doing things otherwise.
However, surely one of the advantages of 2018, over when I was growing up, is that all these social arrangements can be done in a Whatsapp group or a messenger group (or one of the many other social media platforms) and everyone can have a chat and discuss the plan. So your ds's friend says I'd prefer to play football tomorrow, and ds can reply, no, I was looking forward to the skate park, I'd rather stick with that plan and we can play football on Monday... then others going can chip in with what they think.
Why not suggest that to him.

Yep even as an adult I see this. Unfortunately seems to be the case if you go against the ringleader, no one else does and then you just lose out. By ringleader I don't mean a bad/ unpleasant person, often very nice and charismatic but always gets their own way

It’s the same now as an adults. Probably a bit more subtle.

Just leave him to it

To cheer DSS up we said he could invite another friends instead but warned him it was short notice and might not happen/be ok with the parents

He never even tried this thou telling us X friend would be upset by this??

That needs nipping in the bud. If someone is that dominant in the group to the point where people are scared of doing things your son needs to move on

Yes definitely.

I remember organising a cinema night out and meal with 3 friends. I met them on the bus and the ringleader had decided that we were now seeing a different film and going elsewhere for dinner.

I think that’s why I have just individual friends now and no longer part of friendship groups as there always seems to be a dominant one.

@BackforGood

I don't think it that is the issue. I think this friend is the one who decides the plans and the rest of the group follows. DS is a quiet boy and wants to please his friends and just go with the flow so thinking it through I don't think he has it in him to say no, I get the impression that the rest of the group are the same and do as X friend wants.

He has decided he will still go. I don't want to make this decision for him, so long as he is happy with it then so am I. Just didn't like to see his disappointment earlier with the original plan.

This is why I am incredibly glad to not be in ANY 'friendship group' or any group of any kind. I have several buddies who I meet individually for coffees once a month or so, but hate 'friendship groups' as there is always a bossy cunt in there.

As a loner, I can do what the fuck I want, sometimes alone, sometimes with DH, sometimes with a pal. But if I want to do something, I do it, and no fucker will tell me I can't.

With boys there is a really clear hierarchy. You can get them to draw it out and they absolutely know who is the top dog, who are the side kicks and who are the “rest”.

When they’re standing in a group if you look at their feet, they tend to normally always point towards the leader.

Girls also usually have one or two main ringleaders, but because things are more “discussion based” it can be a bit more difficult to work out how the group is operating. Factions split off and re-join and there can be a veneer of pleasantness which covers up problems.

It’s not that this leader is a “bully” unless others are feeling unhappy or targeted by him. It’s that he makes the decisions. I wouldn’t get involved with it beyond pointing out to your son that he doesn’t have to play along and can make his own arrangements. Leaders that make unpopular decisions unilaterally tend to get usurped quite quickly. Boys tend not to have discussions about it and just “do”. So the “break-up” tends to be cleaner and less angsty than with girls.

Some years ago, my daughter (when she was about 14,) was in a friendship group of 4, and they had decided to see a certain film at the cinema. The bossy cow in the group decided at the LAST MINUTE to see something else, and expected the other 3 to cow-tow. 2 of them did what she wanted, and my daughter said 'no, I don't want to see it.' When the 3 of them turned against her and said 'you're outvoted and she needed to do what the rest of them wanted,' she said 'just bore off!' and called me to come get her.

The next day, the ghastly mother of the bossy cow RANG me to tell me what a horrible bratty little cow my daughter was and how she had ruined the trip. I told her to grow up and go fuck herself and hung up the phone.

All 3 girls then ousted my daughter from their 'group.' Just like 'Mean Girls' it was. It wasn't long though before my daughter found new friends, and the group of 3 that was left split up. Literally just several weeks.

@katielouise3
Good for your DD for having her own mind and not follow the crowd. I wish I had done this many years before I actually did because that's when you find your true friends.

DSS needs to learn this for himself, I understand that.

I may have been a little harsh in saying X friend was a bully, but it should be a group discussion with plans, not just one decides and the rest follow like sheep because they are too scared to go against what the leader decides

When they’re standing in a group if you look at their feet, they tend to normally always point towards the leader

I am definitely going to look out for this!

Thanks @LittleMe03

WIBU to say to DSS that he should text the other friends and suggest they should still go to the skate park as planned, if they would rather do that?

I would think that was rather unpleasant to do. Test them all and say "I'm going to the skate park as I'd rather do that, anyone who'd rather join me, I'd love to see you." Fine. But text all the others and try and persuade them to go with him without giving the organiser any chance seems underhand.
What would you hope form that? All the others turn up at the skateboard park and leave the other lad on his own? That's what it comes across as.

What I'd suggest, is he group texts them back-I assume they're using WhatsApp or similar so can do that easily and says he was looking forward to the skating and either would anyone rather do that, or would anyone like to meet at a different time to do skating. That gives any others the opportunity to say they'd like to do it.

I think the comment on the organiser is correct though. In dd1's group there is one girl who is very much in charge. I tassumed she was as the queen bee type. Dd1 would say "oh we won't do that because Jess doesn't think it will work" or "Jess says we should all meet in X place at X time" etc.
This year dd1's become closer to Jess and I've met her. She is not queen bee at all. She is very self effacing and not a huge amount of confidence. But she is good at getting a large group organised. She listens to the others and tried to think of them all as much as possible.

So when dd1 says "Jess doesn't think that will work" it is actually because she has remembered that person A has an allergy that means she couldn't come, or "Meet at this place at this time" is her working out that person B is coming from work so can't get to there before that time and person C is going to a show later that evening so can only go if it's in the same town etc.

@Witchend

I didn't say anything to him and I'm letting him deal with it in his own way. It just annoyed me that this particular friend decided to change the plans without asking the others involved if that would be ok. The rest of the friendship group were not asked... they were told that that was now what was happening!