Vaping on NHS?

[LeroyJenkins]

On the BBC news there was a piece on vaping, and how it should be available on the nhs for heavy smokers

Surely if you can afford to be a heavy smokers you can afford your own bloody vapes??? And if cake companirs want people to try their products they can give out free samples

I was a vaper, DP and dad currently vape. Don't agree with it being funded on the NHS. If they did they would have to have specific pens and specific e-liquids. There is so much variation. You can buy eliquid in Poundland and a cheap vape pen for £20. You can also buy a vape pen for upwards of £80/90 and eliquid for £30 a bottle.

For what it's worth, my other half feels more addicted to vaping now than he did with cigarettes. Of course it is much better for him but it's not really a means to an end in his position and I worry about the long term health problems he may encounter in a few years. He already coughs up a load of phlegm and has trouble with his breathing. Always seems to improve when he doesn't vape for a few days. I think more research needs to be done before NHS can confidently offer as a prescription and provide a fact sheet of all side effects, long and short term.

Vaping is much better than smoking but is not without its own issues.

Hell no. My niece has coeliac disease and The NHS has stopped her gluten free prescription. To replace that with giving out prescriptions for camping would be an absolute joke. And you know it’ll be the people who get free prescriptions who’ll suddenly flock to the doctors in ‘need’ of a vaping prescription.

Leroy - you also need a battery (lasts a while) and then e liquid to put in
I reckon my tank and battery were £50 together and then my liquid is £1 for 10mls
I went from 30 a day to none with vaping, and I smoked for 30 years

Oops! Smoked for 20 years even

To replace that with giving out prescriptions for camping would be an absolute joke

😂

The NHS only allows patches in a very limited way, say one course of a few weeks, and no repeats within six months.

Nowhere will offer free vaping indefinitely. They would offer limited access and lots of behavioural support to stop.

Prevention IS better than cure. If someone stops smoking, their chance of having a heart attack, stroke, and yes, breast cancer is reduced.

That is an overall saving to the NHS.

We are now in such a race to the bottom, that it's a competing victims/patient mentality when prevention is actually cost effective! In other words, if you pay for smoking cessation- you save the NHS money several-fold over as the person does not go on to have the almost inevitable poor health associated with it.

Prevention has gone out the window in the UK, we are just fire-fighting all the time.

Also, smoking is now clustered in groups who are the most disadvantaged in society (people with addictions, people who are poorer, people who have mental health issues- rates are 40%+ in these groups). I'd rather treat their smoking and save money, people who are in psychiatric care die 15/20 years younger than people without psychiatric problems, and smoking is a big part of contributing to this.

You can also vape AND use NRT medication/other stop smoking medications, that seems to produce the best results and I think more evidence will build on this esp in heavily dependent/people with mental health issues who find it very very hard to stop.

There are some v funny autocorrects on this thread.

I think more research needs to be done before NHS can confidently offer as a prescription and provide a fact sheet of all side effects, long and short term.

That's the crux of the issue isn't it? PHE does say that it is 95% safer but that isn't based on experimental data and usually carries the caveat of them pointing out it isn't safe though. The reason there's no evidence of harm is that the research hasn't been done yet, rather than there being evidence that it is harmless.

It's would seem unlikely that the NHS would be prescribing it soon, given that alternatives which are probably safer do exist.

It's would seem unlikely that the NHS would be prescribing it soon, given that alternatives which are probably safer do exist

I think the problem is that rates of quitting on NRT are quite low, and most smokers who are still smoking have probably been around that block already. It's about offering an alternative, or even better, more than one product just to get them over the first few weeks. They can still choose to use just NRT or one of the cessation medications though, I don't think anyone will be pushing vaping on them if it's not what they want. It's more that a lot of people seem to like it and it fulfils their needs in a way a patch doesn't.

I know people who have quit smoking but now vape as much, if not more, than they smoked. I’m not saying it’s not better for their health because it almost undoubtedly is but it hasn’t been used in the way patches or gum would because it’s now very much a new addiction. I also know some people who just start vaping having never smoked in their life which I find very odd. I wouldn’t say vaping is a cool thing to do as smoking was a few years ago but it does seem to become a hobby for some.

I would worry about those people in all of this, potentially abusing the NHS for free vape. It’s not the same as the other smoking cessation aids available on the NHS, I’ve never heard of anyone being addicted to patches.

Out not patches, but nicotine gum has 5/10% of users still using it after the recommended end time- it's addictive!

Use in never-smokers is rare esp in adults, and similar to other nicotine products like gum, the stats on this came out yesterday:

www.smokinginengland.info/latest-statistics/

That's something that would need to be taken into account as part of the decision making process, summersup. But I'm not sure that we're in a position where a risk vs efficacy decision could be made soon.

Are any of the manufacturers looking at getting a medical license for a device?

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Getting through the MHRA licensing procedure is horrendously expensive, AFAIK only one device has been given approval and that was made by British American Tobacco and they didn't release it for sale. By the time it got through the testing it was way out of date, vaping technology moves incredibly quickly.
Ecigs aren't medicines and not a cessation device so no need for them to be on the NHS and I say that as a vaping ex smoker.
Part of the appeal is the variety of choice, one size doesn't fit all so it would be a complete waste of time to have one or two on prescription.

I've been vaping for about 3 years now, after being a heavy smoker for 30 years. Although it is fairly new, and more research is needed, I can say it has had multiple health benefits for me. Since I started vaping, I've had no bronchitis, sinusitis or ear infections. I no longer get breathless when walking up stairs/exerting myself. My skin is clear, my eyes are no longer irritated and I don't smell. I'm also not inflicting passive smoking on anyone.

I've already saved the NHS money on appointments/courses of antibiotics, and longer term I'm much less likely to need hospital treatment etc.

My reservations about providing it on the NHS are that when people start vaping, they tend to need to try different kits/vape liquids until they find the right one for them. How would the NHS be able to decide which kit to provide, when there's such a wide range of kit?

Are any of the manufacturers looking at getting a medical license for a device? No, there was one manufacturer that was going ahead but they pulled out. It takes so long and is so expensive, easier to conform to the consumer/commercial EU regulations. They obviously don't think there's going to be a big NHS marketplace or one globally so the incentive isn't there, plus there's no real point in licensing an older and less effective product when new innovations are coming out all the time.

Keep I know a couple of services (not NHS but council) that do provide starter kits, and I think in one case they offered a voucher for the shop, they didn't choose the kit themselves, and also offered behavioural support which is probably more important than anything for smokers really struggling. Vape shops can do similar (encourage, advise on strengths).

Ecigs aren't medicines and not a cessation device so no need for them to be on the NHS and I say that as a vaping ex smoker I disagree with this- there is a need for short-term medications/cessation devices when smokers go into smoke-free hospitals, for example, and I'd like to see them offered in that situation. E-cigs can be lots of different things at once, an enjoyable hobby, a way out of smoking, something to use when you can't smoke and also taken in a medical setting as a device for quitting. I don't see these as incompatible myself (except the manufacturers are really disinterested in that smaller and much more expensive to enter medical market, I don't blame them)!

Sounds like it’s going to save the NHS money in the long term so I’m all for it. I know several people who have managed to quit smoking because of vaping.

By the way, there's no licensed product anyway, and very few voucher schemes for e-cigs so it's all hypothetical. The question is: is the NHS missing a prevention opportunity by not using e-cigs alongside other cessation devices? The NHS is v poor at providing existing products anyway and some CCGs have stopped offering patches/gum altogether.

The hype and what people really get are, as usual, two entirely different things.

I'm all for it as it will save money longer term.

I went from smoking a packet a day to none when I switched to a vape. I still "smoke" it now, but with a 0% nicotine juice.

I don't think it's 100% safe, but I'm now not inhaling tar, arsenic, lead, formaldehyde, benzine etc.

Would it make sense to give people a simple kit to start on the NHS (not too cheap, because we don't want people to think they're shit & not use them), then they can fund the juices & replacement coils themselves. Which will obviously work out to be significantly cheaper, which means that people will have more money in their pockets to spend on other things.

The result being that there will be less drain on the NHS through smoking related illness & will give the economy a boost too if there's more free cash being spent.

"There's no licensed product any way" is not right, "In a UK first, regulators have issued a licence for an electronic cigarette, thereby classing it a medicine and paving the way for its prescription on the National Health Service.
The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency has approved the use of British American Tobacco’s e-cigarette e-Voke, in a move that enables doctors to prescribe the vaping device as a smoking cessation aid." is from 2016.
My view is ecigs aren't a medicine and a better/cheaper way would be for smoking cessation services be allowed to accept donations of starter kits from vape companies and give them out foc.

I'd suggest people actually read the report

I bloody hope vaping isn't made available on the NHS! There are thousands of better things to spend money on.

Addendum:

😂

It will save money in the long term?

Eh ok.

You can't encourage people to stop smoking, provide nicotine replacement on the NHS and then not fund its most effective form. That's illogical to the point of stupidity.