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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Vaping on NHS?

75 replies

LeroyJenkins · 17/08/2018 07:08

On the BBC news there was a piece on vaping, and how it should be available on the nhs for heavy smokers

Surely if you can afford to be a heavy smokers you can afford your own bloody vapes??? And if cake companirs want people to try their products they can give out free samples

OP posts:

Original poster

LeroyJenkins · 17/08/2018 07:09

Bloody auto correct
Vape companies, not cake companirs

OP posts:

GrumpyOldMare · 17/08/2018 07:13

I'm a vaper and think that's the daftest thing I've heard for a while.You can get a kit and juice for the cost of a week's smoking,depending on how much you smoke. It'll be cheaper to buy the stuff than to pay for the prescription!

Original poster

LeroyJenkins · 17/08/2018 07:14

Listening to it further, the experts are not convinced that vaping is that much better for you

OP posts:

AllRoadsLeadBackToRadley · 17/08/2018 07:17

Oh come on!!!

So...if you can afford to feed yourself up to 40 stone, surely you can afford a gastric band?

If you can afford drugs/alcohol/gambling, you can afford addiction treatment?

(YABU BTW)

Destinysdaughter · 17/08/2018 07:23

Public Health England have said vaping is 95% safer than smoking. Millions of pp have successfully quit smoking by vaping. It’s the most effective way to stop ever. No one needs to smoke anymore and smoking still kills thousands every year. So yes personally I do think they should be available on the NHS.

I tried everything to give up and failed. I haven’t smoked for 3 years now thanks to vaping. Every day I’m so grateful they were invented!

TooTrueToBeGood · 17/08/2018 07:28

Listening to it further, the experts are not convinced that vaping is that much better for you

There's always someone trying to claim serious harm linked to ecigs. Much of that is down to the fact that 2 of the most powerful lobbying groups (big tobacco and big pharma) have a massive incentive to either kill vaping off or get it regulated to the extent that only massive corporations can operate the market. If you have the money you can find a university that will run a study proving a likelihood that the moon is made of cheese. But look at the basic evidence. Hundreds of thousands of people are treated every year for serious/ fatal smoking related illness. How many recorded incidences of vaping related illness are there?

To tell smokers to avoid vaping because the risks are unknown is like telling passengers on a sinking ship not to get in the lifeboats because they might sink too.

As to prescriptions, for all that I am a strong advocate of vaping, I don't think anything that can be bought over the counter should be prescribed. There was a recent report in my county thst the annual cost of prescribing OTC painkillers like paracetamol and ibuprofen was over 400k and we are a small county. That's just the cost for drugs and doesn't account for GP time and surgery running costs.

emma2939 · 17/08/2018 07:36

I'm undecided if it should be prescribed or not but I think they are a brilliant aid to stopping smoking.
My relative quit smoking 3 years ago with one, tried everything previous, the usual nrt stuff, champix tablets, hypnotherapy, nothing worked. I think aswell it's very rare to walk up my local town and see any smokers now! I used to have to battle through clouds of smoke and now hardly see any, when I do see a smoker I always think how on earth can you afford it, aren't cigarettes like £10 a pack nowadays?

drastard · 17/08/2018 07:36

This is a stupid comparison. We have an NHS which is free at the point of contact. If you're happy for everything to be means tested then that's fine but it's ignorant and hypocritical (besides showing lack of understanding of the dangers of smoking and benefits of vaping) to set such double standards.

Ginmakesitallok · 17/08/2018 07:38

You can get other nicotine replacement on prescription - so why not a vape? Major issue is that there aren't any licensed for medical use at the moment.

lovelovelovepancakes · 17/08/2018 07:41

My dm has just been told by her doctor she needs to quit smoking and fast. He has suggested vaping. He said it's perfectly safe and is now the best way to quit cigarettes for good. I'm taking her to buy her first vape today.

I am so sick of people saying "I heard" oh really did you? Well I heard aliens & ghosts are real but it doesn't mean it's fucking true does it!
Get your facts straight first before spouting off about stuff you know fuck all about.

LadyLoveYourWhat · 17/08/2018 07:42

No, those are false equivalences, @AllRoadsLeadBackToRadley. For a start, gastric band surgery costs much more than food. Other addiction treatments are about beating your addiction and then going treatment free.

Vaping keeps you addicted to nicotine. Other nicotine replacement therapies are available on the NHS, but the point is these stop at some point - you beat the addiction and eventually stop treatment.

I agree that if vaping doesn't cost any more than cigarettes, what's the problem? We'll help you beat your addiction, but if you want to just replace your nicotine fix with vapes , I don't think we should fund that.

PhilMitchellsBeard · 17/08/2018 07:46

There is no evidence yet about the health effects of vaping as it hasn’t been around long enough - after all smoking was not initially seen as harmful to health. What if the nhs prescribes vaping and then in twenty years time evidence shows it causes lung disease?
The analogy between gastric bands for over eating and vaping for smoking is flawed - the nhs already spends lots of money on treating smoking related diseases which could still emerge if people stopped, it’s not like they are refusing to treat these, and most gps run quit smoking clinics, why should they fund vaping, just because it is seen as more fashionable than a nicotine patch!

bluerunningshoes · 17/08/2018 07:46

yanbu
the nhs should not fund leisure activities.

LadyLoveYourWhat · 17/08/2018 07:49

@lovelovelovepancakes - I read the Allen Carr Easy Way to Stop Smoking book (the slim one). I went from 20 a day to none. That's pretty quick if you want to give it a go (you need to smoke while reading it though)

Glumglowworm · 17/08/2018 07:54

YANBU

Comparisons with rehab and gastric bands are ridiculous. A morbidly obese person has spent thousands on food over a long period of time. That doesn’t mean they can afford thousands in one go.

Smokers spend x amount a week on cigarettes. Vaping is cheaper than that. That’s a reasonable sum to find in one go because they won’t be spending it on cigarettes so they’ll have it to spare.

The BBC did a report this week about a scientific study of the effect of vaping on lung tissue btw. Conclusion was it IS harmful but not as harmful as smoking. Obviously far more studies needed. But not as safe as the vapers keep insisting.

BarnabyBungle · 17/08/2018 08:08

YANBU

Why on Earth should the NHS be expected to fund vaping when it is cheaper than smoking is beyond me, especially when it is so cash strapped.

I think there are some on here who are to all intents and purposes communists who advocate as a point of principle that the state should literally fund anything and everything...

cptartapp · 17/08/2018 08:12

As a nurse I once asked a smoking cessation expert about vaping. It is currently 'considered' to be safer than smoking but will almost undoubtedly have long term consequences, specifically what is not yet known due to it being a relatively new phenomenon. So better, but like so many lifestyle choices, another ticking time bomb.

MissusGeneHunt · 17/08/2018 08:12

Vaping is excellent as a replacement to smoking. It's benefits are widely known in comparison. It's cheap (if you get the cheaper versions), but I'm wavering on whether it should be on prescription, purely because of its lesser financial value. Perhaps for a 'weaning off' period, like other addiction assistance programmes? Whatever the case, I think they're invaluable. Until there's 100% proof that they are as dangerous as, or worse than fags, I shall vape.

BarnabyBungle · 17/08/2018 08:13

The NHS paying for vaping would be a bit like the NHS paying for a morbidly obese person’s weekly food shop, where that shop was less expensive than their existing shop.

BarnabyBungle · 17/08/2018 08:14

To tell smokers to avoid vaping because the risks are unknown is like telling passengers on a sinking ship not to get in the lifeboats because they might sink too.

Excellent analogy!

Summersup · 17/08/2018 08:16

Vaping keeps you addicted to nicotine. Other nicotine replacement therapies are available on the NHS, but the point is these stop at some point - you beat the addiction and eventually stop treatment

You can stop vaping in exactly the same way as you can stop using the patches/gum- you just wean down over time.

Now, people might not want to do that for many reasons, but in principle you can time-limit vaping or certainly the providing of therapy just the same as any other NRT. The starter kits provided by services that I know offer 4 free weeks, not indefinite vaping.

The lung cell study is one small piece of the jigsaw- there's no evidence in human epidemiology of harm through vaping, though it may well appear.

However, pretty much all vapers are smokers/former smokers- so they were at a 2/3 risk of dying an early death anyway. From that baseline, vaping is absolutely lower risk (as Public Health England, Royal College of Physicians all agree).

Should non-smokers with no interest in these things take it up given a hypothetical slight risk? I wouldn't- and they don't. Only smokers are really interested in vaping, apart from a few kids experimenting as they do with alcohol/cannabis.

Most people wouldn't expect the NHS to fund their vaping, that's why vaping shops are so popular. There are a few populations which are likely to need intensive support- so psychiatric inpatients, people with addictions, very heavy smokers with chronic conditions already and so on, and if they moved to vaping, it would be an overall public health benefit and cost saving, so I'd support use in those circumstances.

missyB1 · 17/08/2018 08:20

Madness. We are rationing operations now that people desperately need, like joint replacements, there’s a discussion happening about whether women with breast cancer will continue to get reconstructive surgery. But we should pay for e cigs??! Just No!

hannah1992 · 17/08/2018 08:22

For those saying why would the NHS fund baking as it is cheaper than smoking. Well so are all other NRT but they're all available on the NHS too.

Plus I doubt that they will be giving the most expensive and best ones out there they will be the cheap crappy ones that don't work very well so people will end up buying their own anyway.

The nicotine addiction is exactly the same as with any other NRT. My dad quit smoking 10 years ago and still chews the nicotine gum. Not so regularly but still does. Plus it's not the nicotine that kills you

hannah1992 · 17/08/2018 08:23

Vaping not bloody baking

Original poster

LeroyJenkins · 17/08/2018 08:26

I am so sick of people saying "I heard" oh really did you? Well I heard aliens & ghosts are real but it doesn't mean it's fucking true does it!
Get your facts straight first before spouting off about stuff you know fuck all about.
Who pissed on your cornflakes?

So I googled, vapeuk.co.uk/collections/atomisers-clearomisers/products/aspire-ets-clearomiser £8, packet of cigarettes, 10? 12? I don't know what other bits you need, but really?

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