"Male-dominated" university courses

[Bathroomwoes]

My cousin has received an offer through clearing of civil engineering at a good university, as well as a joint honours degree of maths and economic at a different, similarly-ranked university. She thinks she'd find civil engineering more interesting and is worried about doing a joint degree and also concerned about finding maths too hard or dry.

However, she's getting loads of people putting her off civil engineering, saying it is too male-dominated and involves a lot of travel i.e. not a good career for having a family. She is family-orientated so this is important to her but my feeling is that too much emphasis is being put on a potential career work-life balance that is 15 off years away!

Any thoughts on civil engineering as a degree for a woman and on future career options, both in and out of civil engineering? I would have thought that sort of degree would lend itself to many different types of jobs? And I don't know anything about the subject other than the wiki introduction but it sounds quite interesting?! More than maths!

She needs to talk to women who work in the field (hopefully a few more will pop up on this thread!)

I worked in the chemical industry in manufacturing which is also quite male dominated and my bosses and colleagues were very supportive and the company was keen to promote women. But that was because their track record at retaining women was so bad and that was because they had frequent restructuring - redundancy and relocation - as they moved to take advantage of different tax rules and to be close to hospitals and universities that were doing the best research. It is very hard to have a family or a relationship and continue your career when you might have to move to the other end of the country every three years.
Civil engineering might be fine, it's got chartered status I think so that might help - if there's a limit to the number of people that can join the profession, firms will have no option but to treat you better, you know? But someone in the profession will know better.

If your DD's doing Maths and Economics, that would bode very well for a career in The City. It's run by quants these days, and trading algorithms are the latest obsession. It's very dry work, but pays so well that she could be mortgage free by the time she has kids. And I'm saying that as an Engineer!

Sorry, cousin - not DD!

I will just add that DH has a better work-life balance in engineering here in NZ than he did in UK. He would get sent all over country at short notice in UK often for weeks at a time (particularly as a new graduate), here they tend to have more local offices so less travel (although still some). He sees far more of dc here. Engineering is more valued and better paid here, think is the same in Australia too as a lot of people have worked in both. It is outing to say what on here, but he has worked on some very big projects with a real mix of men and women.

I work in a related field. Very possible to have a good work life balance. And per previous posters it's no worse or better on the misogyny front than other workplaces (women are just as likely to make assumptions about your likelihood of having children, wanting to go shopping at lunchtime for shoes etc. ).

Besides, what's stopping her working in a well paying job for a while then taking a massive pay cut to be more 'family orientated'? Arguably she would be setting herself up better by doing so. Why would she hinder her life choices now for something that hasn't materialised yet? Changing careers isn't the end of the world.

Both DH and I are engineers (in different fields). He's in civil and it's more flexible family wise than mine. He's able to work from home when DC are I'll and while he does travel, meetings are arranged to allow nursery/school drop offs and any overnights are arranged around family life.

Just because you do a degree in one subject doesn't mean you will end up working in it at all or for most of your working life. Your cousin should do the STEM subject she is interested in and then decide her job choice afterwards. She is going to be working until she is 70, and unlike some countries in the UK you aren't made to stay working the area you do your degree in.

I actually know and have worked with civil engineers who became accountants or ended up in various jobs in IT. The engineers I met who stayed in their field have either worked abroad or moved abroad permanently. Most of this is due to pay.

I'd say follow her heart do Civil Engineering. Let it take her where ever it takes her in the early years of her career. Chase the big projects where ever they are.

Many Civil Engineering jobs involve being on site at 8am on a Monday miles away from home staying in digs until Friday, ie getting up at 4 in the morning with a 3hr or more drive in front of you. Many men don't like the whole away from home life but put up with it for the money. Others enjoy that time away.

Only she can decide later if she if happy not seeing her children 4 nights a week or if she wants to look for smaller (less interesting) projects closer to home.

I know a mum who was told your next project is 400 miles away. So her toddler ended up saying with granny Sunday - Friday. I know somebody else who's toddler travelled and went into nursery near work rather than being left at home.
While I think that's an option for preschool children, I don't believe it is fair to ask a school child to travel.

My advice is go for it !
"Women's work" is more likely to be poorly paid, lesser status and not necesarily more flexible - greater freedom often comes with how much you are valued by your employer.

I'm 62 and I chose maths, then a science field with only about 1% women - still only a few women even now.
I did a STEM Phd (maths / science) which has enabled me to have well-paid interesting work, decent pensions soon, never unemployed.

Personally, I've rarely wanted / needed to travel and have just avoided it totally the last few years.
Depends very much on the particularly job you choose
I chose my jobs for max free time with minimum travel & decent pay and there are enough jobs to be choosy.
Obviously different if you are driven personally to reach the very top.

My field doesn't attract the brainless laddish type, so I've nearly always had a friendly atmosphere and socialised outside work if I wanted.

Never had a dress code either - very casual dress is the norm for science / engineering - so no need to buy outfits specifically for work, no need for heels, etc
I have always lived in comfy sports gear.

There was rarely any presenteeism; hence plenty of free time - obviously useful for those with a family.
Due to the shortage of people in the field, women I know who took time out to have kids have all been welcomed back on easy terms.

Also I can afford to pay for help I need, which I find useful now, approaching retirement and with a visual handicap - my employer & colleagues (all men in my current group) have been very supportive of the latter.

For the last 20 years, the trend in my field has shifted to very flexible hours and most employees now expect this.
I currently chose to go down to a 35-hr week
I've no set start time unless I have a meeting; I can take flexi days off as I want, or just a morning / afternoon, or come in very late.

If women don’t do these subjects, then it’s going to stay male dominated.

Go for it!

DH is a civil engineer. The industry is lacking women. She will be snapped up by employers! His work life balance is great, very little travel. It's pretty stable too, DH has never struggled to find work when looking for a new role. If she goes ahead, I'd recommend getting some work experience or doing an internship to help her pick a specialism such as rail, structures.

It's also quite good for international opportunities. We have friends working out in Australia, Middle East etc if she'd like that sort of opportunity.

If she's interested in civil engineering, I'd say absolutely go for it.

I work in male dominated tech area, but not civil engineering. But there are more women in my area than 20 years ago for sure.

There are great great opportunities for women in this space, more than ever. I’d strongly recommend it.

Almost any private sector role with advanced degree requirements are challenging for mixing home and work life balance, that’s a certainty. But it can and does work

I did Physics at uni - there were very few women on the course. It was never a problem at all - I loved doing my degree and never struggled because I am a woman.

Your niece should do the engineering degree if that's what she wants!

Good luck to her

Cousin not niece! Oops!

I shared this thread with her, which she appreciated. She's going for it with civil engineering!

I used to know a French woman who was a civil engineer - she was amazing. This was in the 80s and she was maybe 50 or 60 then, so presumably she trained in the 50s. I know she was the only girl in her uni or college course at the time, and the only woman civil engineer in her region of France for many years. She said it wasn't easy being the only woman, but it made her incredibly strong and resilient and she had so much respect from her colleagues and said she had utterly loved her career and the opportunities it gave her. (I wonder what happened to her... I ought to find out.)

Your cousin should do the one she finds more interesting. Uni is hard enough anyway without feeling your course is a second best option.