For putting the toy in the bin?

[helloworld2012]

I really need some advice. For background info in the past year I've found out my husband was having an affair, left him and moved to a different country with my two kids. My ex is a terrible father (in his own words he didn't want to be a family man anymore) and has let them down on countless occasions since the split, and in the past 3 weeks hasn't phoned the kids once. I understand this may be causing the children some upset, as well as the move and them starting a new school / nursery. We moved in May and it did go really well, they've settled in so well and we have lots of support here but I am, at times, struggling being a single mother (not that he did much to help before...!) and perhaps the honeymoon period has worn off for the kids now.

DD is 4 and DS is 6 and they've both started to take their anger out on me by calling me 'stupid mummy', 'bad mummy' etc and hitting and kicking me if they're angry. It's usually in reaction to me telling them it's bedtime or time to come in for dinner, time to take a bath etc. I do give them several warnings when the time gets close. They know it's coming but more often than not they get angry and then scream at me and insult me. Often DS will laugh when I'm angry which makes me feel like I've no respect from him.

It's worth mentioning that when they're not in this particular mood the children do respect me, show love, have manners and ask permission etc.

I'm someone who doesn't snap very quickly, it takes me quite a while before I get angry but when I do snap I get loud. I do try to stay calm and try distraction, humour, or 'love-bombing' before threatening to take away a toy or telling them they won't get this treat or that treat. I don't know if they think I'm soft...But anyway if that doesn't work I do get angry and if my buttons are really pushed (if they hurt me or they laugh in my face) I do shout and I follow through with threats.

The past few days DD has had several toys confiscated because of unacceptable behaviour (see above). She had a new toy a week ago (worth a fiver) and it's been confiscated and earned back too many times to count now. So I picked her up from nursery, she was in a good mood, but wanted to wear a leotard and tutu to dance class and I said it would be better to wear leggings underneath because it's cold which went down like a lead balloon. I then picked her up to put her in the car and she started kicking me and said nastily 'stupid mummy'. So when we were home I explained to her that her new toy was going in the bin as she had behaved very badly. And I did it. Confiscating it again was not going to work. What else can I do?

I love them with all my heart, and we do have some really lovely moments together. After a fight we have a conversation about what happened, how it made us feel and how we can stop it from happening again and we hug and apologise. I just really need to know that I'm not allowing them to walk all over me when they call me stupid or kick me. I don't know how to make them respect me!

What do you do if your kids call you nasty names or hit and kick you? and if they are hitting and kicking you, how do you stop them?! I lifted DD and got a massive kick in the groin! Help :(

Then move on.

It's a difficult one because everyone is different and every situation is different but what we do works for us but they are a couple of years younger than us.

We do have naughty step/ time out step we sit them on it and explain what they have done wrong and why it is wrong and why they shouldn't do it. Sometimes we leave them a while to think about things but we always give them a cuddle when they are allowed back off the step. The older one understands what she is told can relate punishment to the crime even if the punishment is delayed the younger one is too young to understand so is only punished at the time.

We always give them 5 minute , 2 minute warnings of bedtime, home time etc. If they do have a tantrum cos they don't want to do something we remove them from situation, tell them behaviour unacceptable and to come and speak nicely when they have calmed down then we just ignore them. The 4 year old has learned to calm herself down by counting to 5 or 10 slowly the 2 yr old still needs help to calm sometimes but is getting there.

If we make threats they are always carried out and always realistic so would stop t.v. or tablet for a set time but never threaten something like not going on holiday etc. I think binning the toy was a tad harsh but once you threatened that punishment you had to carry it out.

Finally try to give as much praise as possible for good behaviour so they get more attention for being good than naughty. At meal times if Bill is eating nicely and Ben not eating we praise Bill and tell him he's being good and ignore Ben's lack of eating.

So far, touch wood, we have kids who are mainly good and we rarely have to punish and when we do punish it is done calmly we have never shouted at them yet and don't smack them which is different to how I was brought up.

We do have the advantage of there being two of us so when one gets exasperated the other can take over.

Sorry if this was too long or not relevant.

In short I think
Give plenty of praise when good,
Minimal attention when naughty
Explain why being naughty is wrong
Keep calm
Be consistent.

Pour yourself a wine

Posted too soon. You also need to pick your battles better. No leggings and cold legs? Oh dear. Next time your dd will learn.... or maybe after a few times of cold legs..... or maybe she doesn’t mind cold legs, my dd didn’t and wore socks and skirts in winter to school for a few years. In any case, let your dd assert herself a bit. If she realises she is allowed some autonomy this will work in your favour and help her to moderate herself. No one likes to be told what to do all the time even if they’re only 4

Actually what also worked with dd (who hated time out as she hated being alone on the step) is time in. It’s perhaps more difficult with another child. It’s like time out but instead of sitting them alone it’s where you ask your child to sit near you and you sit calmly somewhere away from distractions until they’ve gone through the tantrum / anger etc. Have a google.

I do sympathize, I was on my own with children the same age and my DS was fine towards me but by DS was not. I think you will find that this is father issues and that you are a safe person to take it out on. My DS was fine when she went to her DF but he never treated her the same as DS. She was sent to counselling by her primary school as she had sleep and behavioral issues. I used to remove one of her favorite toys if she was particularly foul but some stayed in my wardrobe for a very long time as she didn't really care. The Councillor was excellent with her and explained a lot to her which she took in not that it stopped the behavior but she understood my responses but as she got older she certainly improved. She is now a fabulous 28 year old NC with her df (his choice), so do not despair

YABU.

I second sleeping baby's advice

Please don't throw your child's toy away, it's inappropriate and a bit cruel, it makes me feel quite sick. There's plenty of good advice here to use, good luck, it is hard but please don't do that.

I've been in the same boat and binned when confiscating was becoming repetitive and apparently non effective. I think you sound like you're doing a great job under difficult circumstances, and it's wonderful you all have happy times too. Remember that this too will pass.

'This' may well pass for an adult, but those are the kinds of acts that can stick with a child forever. It isn't necessary, there are so many ways of dealing with issues that are better and more effective.

Throwing toys away is cruel. Your poor DC have been through so many upheavals - they need you to be supportive and understanding. Do you really want them to behave because they're frightened of the consequences or because they want to please you?

Well they’ve been through a lot but you can’t change the past. I think the 2 mistakes you are making are giving chances and visibly showing your anger.
You need to explain to them when they are calm that unkind words and hitting/kicking aren’t acceptable and there will be a negative consequence each time. Then follow through every time and remain completely calm so that they see their poor behaviour only affects them. At the moment you are showing them that it’s ok to call mummy stupid 1 or 2 times before anything happens. It’s not and they are obviously going to test a limit like that. What you see as kindness is actually probably just making them feel insecure of where the boundaries lie re their behaviour. I think consequences that relate to the behaviour work best. I personally wouldn’t have been taking the child to the ballet class after the way you describe them behaving.

It probably wasn't the most effective strategy and I wouldn't be adopting it as a new standard, but it's done now and not likely to cause lasting trauma. It's not as though it was a comfort toy, it was a new one.

I could never get time out/naughty step to work either. I used to take away screen time. If we were out the ban would have to start when we arrived home even though that's hard for a 3/4yo to process.

Definitely talking about alternative ways to express upset. Reiterating every time that it's not acceptable to hurt people or use nasty words. Asking them to show you another way to deal with it - drawing a picture/writing a letter, punching a pillow, saying "I feel ANGRY" loudly, taking themselves off for quiet time, counting to 10, looking at a sensory bottle, etc. Praising when they choose a more acceptable outlet for anger. Explaining that when they have calmed down an apology can help people to feel better about things, but that it doesn't cancel out what happened.

I found it worked quite well from around 5/6 yo to use a token economy system. So I worked out what the biggest issues to tackle were and worded them in a positive way (so instead of "no hitting" it was "control your body" and instead of "no name calling" it was "speak respectfully" - eliminate no/don't because it focuses on what you want to stop, whereas you want to focus on what you want to replace the behaviour with) and talked with DS about what each of them meant. At the end of the day we worked out which ones he'd achieved that day and he got a small token as a reward - for us screen time was key so however many tickets he got correlated to minutes of screen time the next day. It really took the heat out of moments where he was getting wound up as I was not having to deal with it in the moment which simply antagonised him - I just reminded him "That isn't very respectful, how can you be more respectful?" Then we could do a bit of a debrief if he hadn't managed to get many tickets and we'd talk about what he could do better tomorrow. But it might be too complicated for your youngest yet.

One more practical tip is to start lifting an angry child with their body facing away from you and if necessary cross your arms over their body in order to hold their arms down. They can't kick, hit or bite you from this position (which will probably massively frustrate them) which means that you can remain calm and repeat "I hear you are angry, I hear you're upset, I won't let you hit. It's not okay to hit."

I really really like this lady's approach and found her advice much better and more realistic than any wishy washy approach or an overly strict one which I could never get to work.

www.andrealoewen.ca/my-child-hits-me-what-can-i-do/

And you're not alone - we had a year of anger and violence when we moved country with DS (although his behaviour was reactionary before as well). He is much much more settled now, and I think he is overall happy? The move was a positive thing, but it is so much for them to process. He was 5 when we moved. It does get better and easier.

I really appreciate all of the comments. I still have to read through the last ones but I just wanted to say that although I understand the whole 'pick your battles' thing, the leggings was not even a battle. It literally went like this :

Me : you've got dance class later!
Her : Yay! I get to wear my tutu!
Me : Yes! But I think you'll need to wear some leggings underneath. It's cold today isn't it pet?
Her : WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Stupid mummy!!(kick kick kick)

Will reply again once I've read through everyones comments.

They are very likely full of confusion, anger etc which leads to this kind of behaviour. I'd try and get a psychotherapist to talk you through the situation if you can afford it (they'll both be getting what remains of the state pension before one is available if you try to get this via CAHMS - assuming you are in the UK, of course). My step-daughter had to cope with awful, intractable and violent behaviour from her DD that just didn't improve under the usual suggestions for discipline. She is now using different methods which puts the security of the child/parent relationship first, and things are massively improved - not perfect yet, but for the first time, she is really seeing changes. Whatever you try, best of luck.

Waah stupid kick kick

"We don't kick and we dont call names "
Keep calm
Move on.

You are modelling for them
Throwing toys in bin is not a measured adult response.
And no you don't have to follow thru if it's unreasonable let child be ok with adult making a mistake.

Please do look into play therapy
Family therapy
Counselling

Acknowledge the massive changes might be impacting they don't have skill to say why they lashing out.

E.g. dd would hit other dd and say she made me ..She made me cross....which was a line ftom my ex. ...

If you had warned her that the toy would go in the bi. As a result of bad behaviour, then the toy has to go in the bin. I had exactly the same scenario at the same age with my son. The toy went in the bin and that was that, but I had told him how I would act if his bad behaviour continued and I do believe it is important for parents to follow through if they have said that they will do something. However it seems from your posting that you didn't warn her that you would bin her toy, so if I were you I would try and rescue the toy, give it back to her and warn her that if she misbehaves again it will go in the bin and stay in the bin. I only ever had to throw that one toy of. DS's. away. He knew I meant what I said after that and the threat of throwing another toy away was enough to make him behave.

Sunnymeg
But that’s not effective parenting, which a lot of us have been saying all along. It doesn’t stop the child from misbehaving because they want to behave. It stops some children from misbehaving and bottling up their emotions and it makes others act out even more because they’re unable to keep a lid on their emotions. Neither child is happy.

As pps have said the most effective parenting is creating a positive environment, where children want to get along with their parents and enjoy being with them. Therefore. Lots of praise and positivity.

helloworld

How about this conversation. Would it have gone better?:

you’ve got dance class later!
Yay! I get to wear my tutu!
I am pleased you’re so happy pet. It’s cold today. Mummy’s wearing trousers/leggings/tights to keep her legs warm. Do you think you will need to wear anything on your legs at dancing today?

Hopefully she will not kick off at that. Then when she says no she gets to experience cold legs. Maybe she doesn’t care about cold legs. Or maybe she will do it a few times and decide to wear leggings herself.

The more choices kids get the more in control they feel in their lives. As I said upthread dd went to school at minus temperatures in skirts and socks for a few years at school from yr1 onwards so only a year older than your dd. I wanted her to wear tights but it wasn’t worth the fight - getting her to school at that stage was hard enough.

Children will misbehave act out play up. Teach and model the right way to behave. throwing things in the bin is not mature.

Threats to throw toys in bin is not the way forward .it s wasteful. Does not teach child to take good care of things if it s going to get thrown away....

for behaviour which may be manifesting deeper issues.

Living on fear/Threats is not the way forward...

OP This sounds like such a tough one - I hope you remember it’ll be you they turn to later in life and thank for being a strong mummy (I say this as the daughter of a strong single mum).

I would second a jar. Maybe make it an activity? They each have a jar and then paint the pasta the colours they choose?

Give them a pasta piece for anything that shows positive behaviour. Be OTT to start with - for any cooperative, kind thing they do give them a bit (aim to get the jars filled up quickly!) like another poster said have 1/4 1/2 3/4 rewards etc.

Also be explicit when you are praising - eg wow you can a have a pasta for following your instructions. You did what I asked first time. How brilliant!

Lots of helpful suggestions... Only want to add that the children are dealing with big emotions - theirs and yours = which they don't have the language to express adequately. Have you seen the movie Inside Out? I found this a great way in to talk about feelings with my DC, who is a similar age.

Well having read through everyone's comments and advice I want to say thank you to the vast majority of you who gave sound advice, especially mummyoflittledragon. I really appreciate it and am ready to change things here. I want my kids to want to behave because it's the right thing to do. I think the summer holidays wore me down a bit. I'm not a perfect mum (who is?!) but I've always tried my best for my children and I always will.

My DD has actually made the link between the loss of the toy and hurting mummy. Not saying it was the right thing to do but I know some of you were thinking she wouldn't. We had a lovely evening reading stories and laughing together last night and today has been a really nice, incident-free day too. Not because of me binning the toy, but because I have taken the time to reflect on things and have taken the best advice form you lot and have a different mind set. :) thanks xx