Braces, teeth removal, wrong decision??

[beinspired]

This is my 1st time posting on MN, i posted this under 'health' but reading through MN it's probs better to post it here.
My lovely dc is going through Orthodontic treatment at the moment. When she had her 1st appointment it was all about private or NHS. Her teeth are moderate crowding so the outcome was NHS.
She was put on a waiting list. The 2nd appointment was assessment of her teeth and a dental plan. They took an 3D xray and some photo's. On the plan it says dc is a class 1 on a mild class 2 skeleton with moderate crowding. She needed 4 teeth removed, 1st pre molars on the left and 2nd pre molars on the right.
I trusted the Orthodontist as even I could see the crowding of dc's teeth (dh had 4 teeth removed when he was young) most of my dc's friends have teeth removed for braces, so i thought it had to be done.
We had a dentist appointment quite soon, I did check with dentist if it was the right decision. She said, they are a very good orthodontist practice and if it was her child she would have teeth removed.
Anyway, went a long with it, dc was very brave and luckily it was done very quick.
Just a week later i found out that tooth extractions can have a real effect on faces when they grow older. Heard about 'sunken face', flat profile and all sorts of scary things. Heard that you can have straight teeth without removal of healthy teeth even when there is crowding.
I heard about twin blocks, expanders but we were never given any of those options, never even heard of them.
Now I have sleepless nights thinking I ruined my dc's face and that correction of a mild class 2 skeleton (slightly receding chin) should be done now whilst still growing.
I love my dc's face and i heard with current treatment, profile might get worse. BTW not telling any of this to my DC.
I just don't know what to do, i feel so stupid just trusting the orthodontist and only now hear about other options.
I did try to talk to orthodontist at 3rd appointment (fitting upper train tracks) but she wasn't really interested and of course i can't really tell her all my concerns with my child there. Next appointment in 6 weeks.
Anyone any suggestions? Maybe an orthodontist here who can reassure me? Is there anything i can do? Have a different treatment?
Thanks for reading!!

All I can say is that I had 4 teeth taken out at the same age to make room and I am fine.
My son had the blocks for a year and they were horrible - really unpleasant. And I worried the other way - wouldn't it have been easier to take the teeth out instead of making him wear those things for so long.
Either way, you can't undo it so I would stop worrying and make sure you talk more to the orthodontist going forwards to avoid going through this worry again.

I really think you’re over thinking all this and getting in a state needlessly. Removing just one tooth from each quadrant, when there’s already overcrowding, is unlikely to make your child’s face cave in!
If you ask around your friends, you’ll prob find loads of them had this done as children - with only good results. My DD and I both had this, and it improved things greatly.
NHS orthodontic treatment is carried out by qualified practitioners- it’s not third world treatment!

I had 4 teeth removed for my brace and nothing strange has happened to my face.

We are just approaching all this with my DD so have been reading around. Normal practice is to wait until pre molars remove themselves and the teeth are coming through so it can be properly jusdged where they are and the degree of movements needed - DD is 13 and we are likely to get appt at 13.5 - many kids seem to have this done earlier but her teeth are basically slow to develop (she was a preemie) the last two premolars are now loose and likely to go in next 6 mths. She has a tiny mouth and its overcrowded and has an overbite.

I think if the space is needed by other teeth its unlikely to sink the face if his teeth are already through or about to come through.

Myself 30 odd yrs ago had two teeth removed leaving a less than half space on each side of my mouth - no sunken face etc here

But its done - you can't put them back in and teeth science has come along a very long way and I have never seen teeth look worse afterwards than before. It does take a bit of faith :-)

DC had private orthodontic treatment from age 7 with expanders.

Ignoring the expansion part (as you can’t do that!), the main thing seemed to be ensuring they kept their mouths shut, teeth and lips together, with the tip of the tongue in the position to make an N sound as this ensured the jaws grew forward together. The tongue position is very important for keeping teeth in the right place apparently.

There were other things like how to swallow better and postural stuff but the “mouth shut” thing is probably the most straightforward. I seem to remember a suggestion about putting a short piece of micro pore tape vertically across the lips at night time to help them keep their mouth shut at night.

I had 4 teeth taken out too. No issues. No braces. Much cheaper for my parents too. Sounds like a good choice

I had teeth removed as a child for braces, then when i had them again as an adult (long story involving not wearing the said braces !) I also had to have 6 months of palate expansion to make even more room to straighten the teeth.

These people who are suggesting sunken faces and the like presumably haven't seen your child's teeth or x-rays or treatment plan whereas the dentist and orthodontist have. Try and have faith.

You can’t go back and change the decision you made and you made it in good faith.

I had a number of teeth removed due to overcrowding as a child/teenager. I do have a flat profile but I have a syndrome which is likely to cause that type of facial characteristic AND overcrowding of teeth. So I'd think it more likely that some of the issues you've read about may well be from/about people who have the same syndrome without knowing it (I wasn't diagnosed until my 30s, which is not uncommon) and blame the childhood teeth removal for the way their face developed, without realising it would have grown that way anyway.

IOW, if your daughter is otherwise healthy then I doubt you have anything to worry about.

I'm 62 and had 4 teeth out as a child, somewhere towards the back of m mouth but not my very back teeth. My teeth were very crowded. I'm pleased to say that my face is fine, I'm not over weight but my face is rounded and certainly not sunken. I'm regularly mistaken for being 15 ears younger than I am. (boasting over) Several of my old school friends also had this done and they are looking good too.

I had four teeth out !
I look fine at 47. When should l start to get concerned about my face concaving?

I had 6 teeth removed at once, and then braces. More of my baby teeth were taken out then fell out I think, the last one came out in a mold taken before my braces were fitted. Panicked the dental student doing it a bit!
No issues with my face and I'm told I have lovely teeth now. I've never even had a filling.
Your dentist obviously trusts your orthodentist, that's a good sign too.

I had 8 teeth out in one go. Some were milk teeth but some adult teeth too. Removed due to over crowding and then I had a brace fitted, then tram tracks etc. My face is fine - no caving as far as I'm aware! Try not to worry.

I had teeth removed and braces as a teen but no permanent retainer.
Mine went overcrowded again in my 20s with late arriving wisdom teeth and worse again in pregnancy (35).
So I had Invisalign for my 40th which moved the teeth out again to make space, it became clear the first braces had pulled them all in too much. My smile is much better now and I now wear nighttime retainers permanently.

So basically you can have bad orthodontics and then get squint teeth again and then fix it again. It’s not as permanent a decision as it feels. I wish we’d known in the 80s what we know now but it’s ok.

I had this done in the eighties. I ended up wth a narrow smile. I wouldn't allow my child get it done. I would insist on palate expansion to create space for all the natural teeth.

Thank you for (mostly) reassuring replies.
It's true I can't go back and change the decision I made and in a way I wish I never found out about the alternatives or read the scary stories, put on the web mostly by American Orthodontists and some English. It makes me feel so incredibly guilty and stupid.
@afterschoolworry I read about the narrow smile as well, not great.
@BanananananaDaiquiri Thanks, DC doesn't have the syndrome but maybe lots of others have and blame it on childhood teeth removal.
The problem with orthodontic treatment is you never really know how it will be in 10 years time, it's just there is so much talk about teeth extractions and ruined faces online that it scares the hell out of me. I made this irreversible decision although in good faith, I didn't realise the impact it would have. Trying desperately finding ways to make it right somehow. It's all very stressful.

On no my dd has just had 4teeth removed for the exact same reason.I
I really should have had a brave when I was young but the dentist decided I could manage. I have overcrowding and wish I had had a brave fitted whilst a child.

You are right, you can't change the decision. Also, I think that the option wasn't offered to you because of your DD's age. Here in Australia a palate expander is fitted much earlier age 9, 10 or 11.

So here is our experience (for anyone who is making decisions about teeth...)

My eldest (now 12) has a narrow face (like his father). He had severe overcrowding with his canine teeth sticking almost out parallel to the ground etc and he also has a significant (12 mm) underbite.

DS had an expander fitted in early 2017, just before he turned 11. The orthodontist asked me to do 1 'turn' (which slowly expands the upper mouth) each night 25 times. No 'turns' for a few months and then late last year another big series of 'turns'.

His upper jaw has now been expanded to have room for all adult teeth. His lower jaw grew in width to match it.

So the result for him with a palate expander has been that DS now has no crowding and we have AVOIDED braces! Fantastic - the overcrowding is gone. All his teeth are aligned and there is a little bit of space.

Last week we had an assessment for the next stage which is that huge underbite. He is going to have 'blocks' but we don't start that until December.

My DD (now 10.5) also had a palate expander fitted last year. Hers was glued in when she was 9 and a few months. She has needed less 'turns' than her brother. Again, DD now has room for all adult teeth. She has unfortunately inherited my DM's 'horsey' (protruding) teeth so will need braces either in 2019 or 2020.

Both my children still have their expanders still glued in. They are left in to keep it all stable.

I recommend palate expanders, but I think you need to get an orthodontist to assess them much earlier than for braces (Year 3 or Year 4) so that the orthodontist can get the device in and start working on the size of the mouth well before the child starts the big growth spurt.

It's pretty standard orthodontic treatment by the sounds of things. Stay off Google. Some American dental stuff is really different from what UK training is and not in a good way. Her face won't cave in because she still has plenty of teeth to stop that happening.

Expanders can work in some cases, but they are now finding that the teeth can be moved too far out of the arch and the roots are too close to the outside bone. As a result, as an adult get exposure of the roots, due to the thinness of the bone breaking down. This can be unsightly and leave teeth v sensitive.

Another braced & 4 teeth out, and so far at least 2 of my kids will have them later on, 13 year old is overcrowded and eye teeth stick out a little, his choice but has too many baby teeth yet. 7 year old front teeth cross over so I expect he will need a brace.

I had extensive orthodontic treatment and oral surgery. 4 years with train tracks and previous 5 with retainer type braces. My face is fine, not flat or funny looking (I hope)
Your daughter will be fine and I’m sure she will thank you for her lovely teeth later on

Me and my dh both had extractions and braces as teens, we are in our 50s now and no sunken faces. Our 3 eldest DC have all had orthodontic work and extractions, they are in their 20s and no problems at all. You have been advised by experts, trust them and as a pp said stay off Google.

Americans have very different ideas of what makes a good smile and shouldn't really be compared, their treatments are more extensive because they all want that Hollywood tombstone smile. I had four teeth out and braces, you couldn't tell looking at me now. I have a small gap in the lower jaw on each side that didn't close fully, doesn't cause any problems and isn't visible, no sunken face from it.

Trust your orthodontist. They are experienced at doing their job.

I had 4 teeth out and it didnt change my face at all. Its all scaremongering. Dont forget her wisdom teeth need to grow in yet as well. Over crowding will be a lot worse with too many teeth already.

I only have 24 adult teeth left as a result of orthodontic treatment. And I had milk teeth taken out too so that I could grow the adult teethical through so they could be removed. And every fucker without any numbing gel - passed out every session.

The only issue now is having to do a lot of flossing as the teeth don't fit together as well as they would without the missing teeth - my dentist tuts a lot about that so I assume the amount I had removed was on the excessive side. They're not that straight either