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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this will be laughed out of court?

76 replies

NotYourNoisyNeighbour · 15/08/2018 12:23

Name changed as people might recognise me from this.

We (2 adults, 2 children aged 6 and 3) live in a terraced house made of two combined flats. Our next door neighbour on the ground floor only has a track record of antisocial behaviour towards everyone nearby (she has been given a police warning previously for Breach of the Peace after yelling at me and another neighbour in the street).

A major bone of contention for her is the "excessive noise at antisocial hours" coming from our house. This is RIDICULOUS. We do not play loud music, have the TV on loud or have parties (if we have people over at all in the evening it'll be once a month or so, chatting in the living room, away by 11pm - nothing loud!). The children are upstairs (and therefore not in rooms next to their flat) every night by 7.30pm. We usually stay upstairs then too and watch TV in our bedroom.

The noise they are complaining about is LITERALLY the noise of us walking around the house, speaking at normal volume and the kids playing. Maybe the TV or radio but those are placed away from the wall we share with them and we don't hear theirs so I don't think they can hear ours. The only sounds we hear from them are things like the washing machine spin or loud coughing next to the adjoining wall. The adjoining wall has a corridor and bathroom on our side and on theirs I believe a bathroom, closet and the kitchen. But our living room and kitchen do not adjoin.(I'm just saying this for context.)

A few weeks ago they sent us a solicitors letter moaning about the noise and threatening court action. We can't really do anything about the normal noise of people living in the house so we ignored it. Today we got another solicitors letter. They are saying if we don't reduce the noise within 7 days they have been instructed by their clients to raise court action. We are not noisy!!

I really don't want to spend money on a solicitor fighting this ridiculous non-issue. Am I right in thinking it will get laughed out of court? They have no evidence because there is no evidence! And if there were surely the council would be the people to deal with it, not a solicitor? I'm guessing they only went to the solicitor because the council told them nothing could be done.

We live in Scotland so it's Scottish Law. TIA.

OP posts:
AveABanana · 15/08/2018 13:21

Can you get copies of these other letters they sent your neighbours?

HelpmeobiMN · 15/08/2018 13:27

Surely no trained and qualified lawyer would be so sloppy in correspondence?

You would hope so but it’s actually astonishing how shoddy some legal firms are. In addition, many use paralegals for the bulk of the work and only have broad oversight by an actual solicitor. And while there are many amazing paralegals who do great work, there are also some who are very slapdash in their approach.

MumW · 15/08/2018 13:31

I second talking to Citizen's Advice.

runningkeenster · 15/08/2018 13:37

Is a name given on the solicitors' letter? Why not call them? Say you've received this letter and you are concerned that it is a hoax as the letter is so poorly written and anyway, you're not at all noisy and can't understand what they are on about.

Solicitors are under a duty not to bring the profession into disrepute and writing letters without evidence to unrepresented individuals is close to the line, if not over it.

Jixy8731 · 15/08/2018 13:47

I would ignore it. It is a non-event at the moment. Maybe start a record of when you all go to bed and get up though. You could also ask other neighbors if they have a problem, then you can just send their comments and your record back to them if the letters persist. You don’t need a solicitor for this, not at the moment anyway.

Thebluedog · 15/08/2018 13:52

Surely they would need specifics. I know if you complain to the environmental health re noise such as dog barking. You first need to keep a diary of the noise, then if they still think you are being unreasonably noisy, they will put sound monitoring equipment and record the noise. And only then they take the legal route if it’s unreasonable. All this takes a number of months.

PolkaHots · 15/08/2018 13:58

I would definitely contact the solicitors and say that someone is sending out hoax letters in their name.

loveka · 15/08/2018 13:59

Bluster. Our neighbour does this, we have learned to ignore the solicitors letters.

A solicitor will write a letter under instruction. In my neighbours case, when he has started to actually take action that is when his solicitor advises him he hasn't got a leg to stand on.

theOtherPamAyres · 15/08/2018 14:04

When environmental health have evidence of "noise exceeding permitted levels" (usually by monitoring with equipment) they send a Noise Abatement Notice. If the Noise Abatement Notice is ignored and the noise persists, then they will escalate to the court and seek a ruling.

It's the council that enforces Noise Nuisances.

If you get any more letters I would either ignore it, or you can write back saying something like: "I require you to desist from sending me any more intimidating and threatening letters. I feel that I am being harassed and will have to seek advice from the Law Society about your conduct".

Guienne · 15/08/2018 14:07

If they have any sense at all they will back off because solicitors cannot go around threatening legal action against unrepresented lay people.

Of course they can and do. Indeed, before any solicitor starts an action they have to send a formal pre-action letter to the proposed defendant, and in most cases they will have no idea whether that person is represented or not.

What they have to do, however, is to comply fully with the relevant pre-action protocol, detailing exactly what is alleged to have happened, what the evidence is, what damage it has caused, why they say it is unlawful, and what needs to be done to remedy it. These people obviously haven't. OP, I think you just need to reply pointing out that they haven't complied with the protocol and denying that their client has any cause of action.

PatchworkGirl · 15/08/2018 14:47

I'd also contact the colicitor to confirm the letter is from them, pointing out that the multiple errors made you think they were a scam. But I'm petty like that ;)

PatchworkGirl · 15/08/2018 14:49

Of course, I check that I was error free before contacting them!

*solicitor Blush

PatchworkGirl · 15/08/2018 14:49

*I'd

!!!

Guienne · 15/08/2018 14:51

It probably is worth contacting the solicitor to check whether it's genuine. The letter should have a reference on it that should show who is dealing with the case, so phone and ask for that reference. Although it was in a franked envelope from the office in question, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that it was actually sent by someone like a clerk or office assistant who's a friend of your neighbour.

HelpmeobiMN · 15/08/2018 15:01

OP has confirmed that she is in Scotland, therefore there is no requirement to adhere to any pre-action protocol.

Guienne · 15/08/2018 15:29

On the contrary, Scots law does require a number of pre-action protocols.

HelpmeobiMN · 15/08/2018 16:23

The only compulsory pre-action protocol in Scotland is for personal injury claims. The OP’s neighbour’s issue would not be raised as a personal injury claim.

There are other Scottish voluntary pre-action protocols which are not compulsory and which are rarely used.

It is absolutely not required to go through a pre-action protocol for an action seeking interdict.

I am a Scottish solicitor, and a litigator. These are the facts.

user1487194234 · 15/08/2018 16:40

I think most solicitors would write a letter based on info provided by a client,unless it was very obvious they were not telling the truth
There is nothing wrong in that

However if the solicitor gets a letter back advising that the facts are incorrect most solicitors would back off ,I certainly would at least stress to the clients that I would need independent evidence before proceeding
TBF I avoid neighbour disputes as they re a nightmare

Original poster
NotYourNoisyNeighbour · 15/08/2018 17:34

Thanks everyone.

I spoke to my local council today and they said they've never received any noise complaints about us (given Thatcher gave multiple neighbours due to the nature of our house, you'd think if we were so noisy it was reasonable to take legal action then at least one other person would gave called to complain Hmm) . They said it's possible the neighbours had phoned at some point and been told our "noise" was outwith what they deal with, but nothing had been noted either way.

I'm going to leave off contacting the solicitors for now and see what happens in 7 days, since I can't really reduce our "noise unless we move out.

I think they are moving towards an interdict against us, or at least think they are. But since we aren't actually noisy I don't think they will be able to get any evidence for one. The solicitors may be happy to write letters based purely on what their clients are saying, but for anything more than that they'll need proof and there isn't any!

I generally don't want to spend any money on a solicitor fighting this nonsense (we could afford it, but I'd rather spend that money on a holiday or Christmas!) but if they do somehow serve us with court papers I'll get one. If I do, does anyone know if I can recover the costs from them? Or would I have to countersue?

I'll keep this thread updated with any other happenings.

OP posts:
Original poster
NotYourNoisyNeighbour · 15/08/2018 17:36

Given Thatcher?! Given that we
And would have called
And I really don't want to
Sorry Blush

OP posts:
kirinm · 15/08/2018 17:36

@NotYourNoisyNeighbour not sure how it works in Scotland but I'm England and Wales, generally speaking the losing party is responsible for all costs so, if they applied for an injunction but you defended their application and were successful, they'd have to pay your legal fees. (Sorry, don't know the Scots terminology for an injunction).

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 15/08/2018 17:49

The letters have also included many typos including mention of "unscalable hours" hmm, spell one of our names wrong and in one case were dated from a month that hasn't happened yet! So I don't think they are very discerning solicitors

I would contact them to ask:
What is an unscalable hour?
Was this even meant for us as the name is incorrect?
What do they mean we have done something wrong in the future, how does that work exactly?

HelpmeobiMN · 15/08/2018 17:57

In Scotland an award of costs is usually made to the successful party (unless there are reasons why the court thinks this would be unjust - but that is very unusual). However, you would likely only recover in the region of 50-60% of your expenses - it can be very frustrating for people in your position who are sued without reason!

Hopefully it won’t actually come to that - a sensible solicitor ought to warn them off before then.

Original poster
NotYourNoisyNeighbour · 29/08/2018 14:18

UPDATE

It's been 14 days since we were told we had 7 days to reduce "the noise" (which was impossible without ceasing to live here) or they were taking court action and we've not heard anything. There was an incident where the neighbour shouted at a visitor of ours for "looking in her house" (she glanced that way whilst walking past and they have blinds at the window anyway...) but other than that, nothing has happened. I'm feeling more relaxed about it, bit not totally, as I know legal things take time (I also know they have no evidence with which to sue us).

OP posts:
sulflower · 29/08/2018 14:23

I would phone the lawyers and ask if they have sent you letters. If they say yes, then ignore, no way would a court be interested with no evidence. I think you have to go through various hoops to report noise nuisance anyway. They sound batshit.