To stop fighting for xH to have access after his outburst?

[Pinkvoid]

Huge backstory but will try to be as succinct as possible without risk of dripfeeding.

Three DC aged 6, 7 and 8. Separated from xH coming up to four years ago. Have been with DP close to three years, introduced to DC 2.5 years ago and he has lived with us for the past year. I’m six months pregnant and we’ve just bought a bigger house in a much better town that’s a 40 minute drive away. It will be a far better place for us all to live in and the DC have a place in a much better school. DP and DC are extremely close and DP and his family have put a huge effort into making them feel included, accepted and cared for- it’s lovely.

XH moved in with his DP about a month after we separated and introduced to DC straight away. His DP has two DC aged 6 and 10. They live in a very cramped two bedroom house which obviously means when our DC stay there’s five under 10s in a small bedroom and our DC sleep on a blow up mattress on the floor. I don’t feel particularly comfortable about the ten year old boy sharing with our DD’S and have raised this as an issue with xh numerous times. Excuses as to why they can’t move have been endless, the most recent is that they’re in major rent arrears with the HA.

Her DS has bullied our DC for years varying from ordering them about, pushing them around, physical fights with my DS etc to threatening to murder them and also me. All of this has been mentioned to xH multiple times but nothing seems to change.

XH also doesn’t take the DC anywhere, he has taken them out approx ten times in four years. They just sit around in his house or play in the front garden. He says this is because he is broke but her DC have every piece of expensive technology imaginable, they have the full Sky TV package and also are going on an expensive holiday abroad in a couple of weeks which our DC haven’t been invited to.

They find it boring, really don’t like his DP’s DS and don’t like sleeping on the floor. Every week they beg not to go, sometimes I have to send them kicking and screaming and it breaks my heart. I make them go because I feel guilty not (although equally feel guilty sending them). I have asked xH if it’s possible for him to just take the DC out on his own instead of them going to his house but he says he is too broke for this.

He claims to work Monday-Saturday 9-5:30 and also one Sunday a month so as a result only sees DC three days a month. He doesn’t drive and has been ‘booking driving lessons soon’ for about a decade in all honesty, it never materialises. DP and I do drive so we drop the DC at his on a Saturday evening when he finishes work but ask he drops them back on the Sunday.

It was DD’s birthday on Saturday and we had a lovely day out. Went to drop them off usual time with XH (6:15pm when he gets home from work) but there was no sign of him. Called him and he said he’d missed the bus so his DP was setting off to collect him. She’d ignored us when we knocked on their door , we saw her leave with her DC to collect him. It’s a 15 minute drive to his work so we figured we’d be waiting half an hour. 40 minutes passed (45 since we arrived there) and still no sign. We had nagging bored children in the back of the car who were tired after a long day and also needed the toilet so we gave him another ten minutes then set off. When I arrived home xH called me and started shouting down the phone. DP took the phone off me and told him not to speak to me like that. We explained how long we’d waited, asked why his DP didn’t just collect him after work or he didn’t get a taxi to be there on time for his DD’s birthday but he didn’t have a good response. He got a taxi to collect the DC and blanked us.

Yesterday I received a colossal text ranting and raving, some of it was entirely incongruous. He was essentially having a go at us for driving off, said we had no right to ‘dictate how he parents’ and that if it continued, he would be contacting his solicitor to have a written agreement r.e access. In ways he was trying to claim we were preventing access in some way which is clearly nonsense since we make every effort for it to continue despite it making the DC unhappy... I didn’t bother replying to the text.

Asked DD what they did for her birthday and she had to share it on the Sunday with his DP’s DD which happens every year. They shared a birthday cake, his DP’s DD got lots more presents than DD including a tablet and they didn’t go anywhere for the birthday .

DP has worked really hard to try and build bridges with xH. They’ve been out for coffee a couple of times to try and iron out issues with the DC. Yet in this text, xH really painted DP out to be the bad guy and we’ve both had enough. We had agreed to drop the DC on a Saturday evening when we move house to save xH the rigmarole of getting the train and the cost, despite the fact it will cost us a fair amount in fuel. After this outburst we just can’t be bothered bending over backwards for him anymore. Would we be unreasonable to refuse to drop them when we move? The DC don’t even want to go...

Sadly not. He isn’t originally from here and his parents live half way across the world. He doesn’t have any living family here and I don’t think he has many friends, his life is fairly insular by all accounts. I did offer him our house to have contact with the DC for the day at one stage but that was declined. His DP calls him every time he drops them off here to make sure he isn’t sticking around for long, I find it all very odd...

The ten year old is a major concern for me too, I have brought that up. I know boys reach puberty typically around 10/11 and it won’t be long before he is experimenting/masturbating. I am concerned for our DD’s safety tbh.

Oh and DP and I wouldn’t have been in the house obviously .

Do you know much about their financial situation? Perhaps she is the main earner and their finances are separate? Sounds like it might be possible that she dictates what they spend their money on and so spends it on her DCs not his. Perhaps she pays for all the holidays and games etc and so doesn't want to pay for your xh's dcs. Maybe he actually does t have any of his own money to spend or she dictates where it's spent? Is he on minimum wage? Sounds like he could potentially be in a very tricky situation where he is unable to afford to spend money and all the luxuries are funded by her.

I think day contact would be best. It would avoid the sleeping situation, the bullying and the openly hostile stepmother who they must have noticed her behaviour avoiding you.

If he is agrees, when it goes ahead keep records of whether he was unreasonably late or told you he wasn’t coming for no good reason. I suspect that contact will dwindle, but if you can demonstrate that you made the DC available and facilitated contact, you have nothing to reproach yourself about. If it is a success, well, you don’t need to worry about the other issues, and the DC will benefit.

They earn a similar amount. They both work FT at slightly above min wage plus he gets commission. I don’t know how many hours a week she works (only that it is full time shifts) but from what he has told us, he is working 50+ hour weeks. We don’t quite believe that but that’s what he has told us. We estimate they have a joint income of 40k.

He has been through his finances with me before. He told me he pays rent and council tax as well as his phone bill and sky and they split food. She pays everything else- her car, any other bills and whatever her DC need. He has said in the past he doesn’t pay for anything for her DC but I find it hard to believe. DP and I also both work FT and have similar salaries to one another but that doesn’t mean DP never contributes anything towards my DC because he does.

He later told DP he has rent arrears and a few debts which he is refusing to pay because after so many years they get wiped anyway . He will pay for his bus fares to work every day too I think. He is very much into vaping and spends about £100+ a month on that plus regularly turns up wearing new trainers that aren’t cheap. The maintenance he gives me is minimal. So I don’t buy that he has little left over. They are on the lowest council tax band and the rent won’t be very much.

It is very possible she dictates where the money is distributed and would not surprise me. I don’t know much about her because she has refused to interact with me but I do know she calls him every time he drops them off and it seems like she’s checking in on him. There have also been a few examples of her slagging me off to the DC in the past.

He is bad at money management. His new trainers and vaping are more important than spending the money on outings for his DC, I would be OK with minimal maintenance if he was spending on his kids as well during contact with them.

The stepmother sounds horrible and if she slags you off all the more reason to keep your DC away from her.

I would also be happy with less maintenance if he spent money on the DC and I have always said this. If, for example, he made an effort with their school life and did school runs or helped with uniform and school trip costs but he never has believing the maintenance covers it (it definitely doesn’t). If he had a bigger home and DC had beds in that home. If they had clothes at his house and if he took them out more often. As it stands, none of that happens and I still get minimal maintenance.

Have you ever sent him a photocopy of the receipts for school uniform and shoes/equipment? Chances are he is clueless of the cost because he has never had to buy them. Compare to his maintenance payment to see how far short it is, and enclose those figures, and also what the standard amount of maintenance would be rather than minimum. Add food costs/school lunches, and any expenses related to clubs/sports/hobbies, and say this is what it costs for three DC. Say his half would be x amount. Then say the amount you calculate the CMO would expect him to pay. Finally say what you would accept, on condition that he takes the DC out and spends decent quality time while they are with him, as you know that trips and admissions to things can be expensive. This makes you look reasonable if it should come to a dispute, and you have a paper trail of what you have tried to do for the DC benefit.

I seriously doubt he will change, you will have tried to make contact work, but you can’t make him do anything and I suspect he will just get worse and you can legitimately let things slide as the DC are available but he is the one making no effort. Then you can go after full maintenance or as much as he can pay because you are paying for everything. It’s easy for him when the DC are staying at his because he doesn’t need to do any actual parenting, and possibly not fork out for meals out or treats as he would need to do on his own with them.

It sounds as if he is a weak and pathetic man, who would rather see his children bullied and potentially sexually abused and do nothing. I agree with you. You need to be very careful. It sounds as if you have to money to see a solicitor to give you some advice as how best to sort out this mess. Please make an appointment.

My brother abused me in a sexual way. Idk if you’d strictly call it sexual abuse. But it totally destroyed all confidence in myself as a young teen and young woman. I thought I was vile, sexually unattractive and worthless. When he was old enough to get what sex was, he tried to destroy me by no longer calling me by my name but a vile sexual name indicating I hadn’t reached puberty, regularly calling me to see him masturbating and sticking his penis near my face. He got his friends involved too. This continued until he was at least 19. So even if this boy doesn’t intend to touch your children, there are other types of sexual abuse.

The first year after we separated I explained how much school uniform cost (and this was only for two DC, youngest wasn’t yet in nursery). He responded by telling me it doesn’t cost his DP that much because she gets everything from Asda . I also mentioned about how much food costs for the week especially with lunchbox items on top, again he told me to shop at Asda and to stop buying so much fruit. I’ve mentioned in passing how much school trips are and he’s well aware of the amount of activities I do with DC but he’s never offered to stump up more cash. The only extra money I have had from him is sponsorship money for the DC when they’ve done a penalty shootout or something at school.

I did make a point to ask for more maintenance once when he started the job he works in now because his access reduced as a result to three Sundays a month rather than all four. He said no and explained his finances which is why I know so much about them.

He doesn’t seem to grasp that outside of his maintenance payment, the only things he really pays for are three meals a week 3 weeks a month and birthday/Christmas presents.

No way would I let my children go somewhere so unpleasant for them. If that's true, how can you bear to let them be there?

I’m so sorry to hear your experiences mummy, that’s absolutely vile .

It is a genuine concern of mine. The boy in question isn’t the kindest of boys anyway so I do genuinely worry for both my DD’s and actually DS (I wouldn’t want him viewing and mirroring any behaviour). Mentioned it to xH a ridiculous amount of times, as has DP. I think last time xH made his excuse about rent arrears but also said he was looking into bunkbeds for the DD’s. That was a few months ago...

longway it plays on my mind every time I drop them off, I hate it and feel sick sometimes especially when I’ve dropped them off crying. I know DC2 (who is quite an anxious child and generally quite glued to me) wakes in the night when they’re there crying for me. I don’t want to send them anymore at all, I just don’t want them not to see their Dad and he’s completely unwilling to make any compromise. It has to be in his house.

I don't think the housing department will make any provision for non resident children at all. Fwiw I also think you are facilitating X too much. I personally believe the NRP should collect the children and the RP should make them available. Would a bus journey stop you seeing your children if the shoe were on the other foot? No.

No they don’t but her DC are boy and girl and the eldest is ten so I’m certain they insist on separating sexes when they reach ten or so (I thought it was eight actually but I may be wrong, not my area of expertise.)

Nothing would prevent me seeing my DC, no and I would be genuinely devastated if they told me they didn’t want to visit me. I’m not sure how he can handle being told weekly that they don’t want to be in his house tbh, I would have to change whatever was upsetting them ASAP.

Exactly, so would I. If I had a DP or SC who were horrible to my DC they would be gone. I would also learn to drive and work with you on any concerns which I might then ask for your help implementing. In order to make my DC happy.

I would stop overnight access. Let him go to court. He won't.

Can you do to then CMS for maintenance?

Well exactly and I think any loving parent would feel the same way. If my DP was upsetting and distressing my DC (or he had a child that was relentlessly bullying them), we wouldn’t still be together. Part of the reason DP and I are still together is because of his close relationship with my DC and his family’s for that matter. Seemingly, xH doesn’t seem to mind...

I will stop over night stays and also doubt he’d go to court. Even if he did, I don’t know whether a judge would insist on over night stays when he doesn’t even have adequate living space or beds for them.

I could go through CMS and have considered it after doing a calculator. Trouble is, I don’t know his exact earnings so was working on estimates from what he has told me. He gets to pay me less purely because of her two children which I find laughable but regardless, he isn’t paying enough.

OP - do you need the money that he gives you? Not whether it is right or wrong but do you need it - will it make a difference to you? A reduced amount could make him more co-operative regarding seeing DCs away from his unsuitable DP, SC and home.

I cut my XH's maintenance down because I knew it would be a struggle to get the specified amount on time every time but that he would grab the chance and pay regularly if I offered him a "bargain".

If an NRP is selfish and puts themselves above their DCs (which is what he is doing) sometimes the money is a sticking point/bargaining chip that you can use to help your children have a better time.

It makes me feel sick saying it and it stuck in my craw but sometimes you just have to be practical and work with what is achievable rather than what is right.

Also - if DCs are having a fab time at his house they wouldn't care at all about air mattresses, kipping on the sofa, sharing the dog bed 3 nights a month. That's a red herring that you are focusing on.

From nspcc site

"If you're renting or your home is owned by a housing association there may be rules in place restricting children over 10 of the opposite sex from sharing a room. Your local authority should be able to give you more information and discuss any concerns. You can also contact an experienced advisor in housing matters at your local Citizens Advice Bureau or by speaking to the housing charity Shelter who can also advise on issues such as bedroom tax."

I think they're are many different issues here...

Firstly you exH is an adult. And he needs to act like one and you need to treat him like one. Having met ups for you to help with his finances is just allowing him to be pathetic.

Yes you worry about your children when they are with him, that is normal and you need to focus on giving them the tools to deal with life with him.

But you're not going to change him. And his life choices. If he thinks 4 children sharing a room is ok and won't look at alternatives nothing you say is going to make a difference.

One positive... he clearly wanted to see his child for their birthday, yes he has very difference values to you of what should be done. And it sounds very much like his artist has no interest in your kids and doesn't see them as per of her family. Again you can't change that, and long term the kids when older won't be interested in going there.

It's hard for you to understand as your dh has taken your kids into his family and sees himself and them and you as a unit.

Stop trying to sort him and his life out. As king as the kids are safe, they might not have the best time there and yes maybe over nights are the thing to suggest to stop until there is suitable sleeping arrangements. But if he wants to see his children and they want to see him then do what you can to facilitate that.

And yes as you're the ones moving away you need to be doing that.

He might not be the parent you want him to be, but he wants to be their dad and see them. So I wouldn't stop that.

It isn't fair, very rarely blended family situations are and it can be utterly frustrating.

But I would focus on you and the children and your time. Make sure they know they are secure and loved, it won't be long till there older and choose to see him or not and that's between them.

If the children are really that miserable have you ever asked him to sit down with just you & your three children to talk about they issues and why they are so unhappy visiting dad, it would really help your ex partner have higher chance of putting aside whatever feelings he has with your partner & best chance you have of him putting his children first & children would feel a lot better being open with the two of you without anyone else around, you of course would have to let the children do the talking & keep your opinions to yourself unless the children involve you of corse , as for stopping drop off I'm not sure you are considering that in the best interest of children if you was saying it's because of his new partners child hitting them and such & that the problem is ongoing & dad hasn't dealt with it I'd be more inclined to agree with you but over him not being there one time birthday or not we all late on times even the best of us, I agree he has very poor parenting skills but he's they father & best you can do is make it always about the children not your opinion as it sounds he has issues with you and your partner

I don’t need the maintenance per se but I don’t think he should be allowed to stop paying it considering how little he sees them/does for them. IF a reduction came with a caveat that he would see them more, fix the living space situation (I.e move to a three bedroom house) and get the DC actual beds, then yes I would be up for it. However, I have been trying to tell him about it for four years and it hasn’t altered so I don’t think paying me less each month would change a thing.

Thanks for the NSPCC guideline, I will show him that.

He definitely does want to be involved and DC do want to have a relationship with him which is why I’ve tried so hard over the years to facilitate it, however frustrating it has been for me. The problem literally is both his living situation and his DP’s DS.

The older the DS becomes, the more uneasy I am feeling about it. Likewise the older our DC become, the more uneasy it is making me. Whilst not ideal, I wouldn’t have minded the bedroom situation as a temporary thing for the first year or maybe two after we separated (when the eldest in the situation was 8 and youngest was 4) but as it stands, it’s been four years and nothing has altered. The older our DC are getting, the less inclined I am to insist they go. My DS in particular is now reaching an age where he is digging his heels in and becoming quite passionate about not going.

As for the conversation between me, xH and the DC. Yes, we have had this three times in total. It all came to ahead last summer when I discovered xH had been hitting our DC and his DP had threatened to ‘tape their mouths’ . I stopped access for a month all together as a result. I appreciate hitting children isn’t illegal in the U.K. and he hadn’t left a mark but it was having a significant effect on them. So we all sat down and had a conversation, the DC laid out what bothers them most while XH and I sat back and listened. XH took it all on board and said the hitting would stop, that he wasn’t aware his DP had said such a thing but that he would be giving her a rollicking for it and that he would fix the issues with her DS.

He has never hit them and his DP has never threatened them since so that changed but the behaviour from her DS did not and the sleeping arrangements didn’t either.

Sorry just read that back, the eldest was 6 and youngest was 2 at the time so five children of that age for one night a week isn’t terrible but now they’re aged between 6 and 10, it’s an issue.

Could you go through cms, then give the children pocket money (for meals and an outing) when they go out with him.
He's still paying but you're budgeting for him.
Annoying though