To refuse to allow ex to take dc on this holiday?

[theduchessstill]

I don't suppose I can, but I really want to.

The dc have just come back from a day with ex after 10 days in France with me. We've been apart 4 years and he has never taken them away apart from twice, to UK destinations paid for and arranged by his dm, and accompanied by her and other members of his family. I take them abroad every summer, and on short breaks away, often, but not always, to see family and friends, throughout the rest of the year.

The dc have told me that ex needs my holiday dates for next year as he will be taking them to Italy in the summer. I ignored it, but he has now sent a text asking me when I will be away as he wants to book to go to Italy.

I'm not happy because:

1. The dc don't enjoy spending more than a few days at a time with him (he has them 2 nights a week, non-consecutive and no more than 4 nights at a time during holidays. They get bored because he doesn't interact much and then gets snappy when their behaviour deteriorates/any issues arise.

1. They are off away with him and his family next week and are constantly saying they don't want to go for one reason or another.

• He will be taking them to stay with a friend of his, who he has, imo a very bizarre relationship with. He knows this man through his df who has worked with the man's df, and always spoke about him as a really close friend but when he first came to the UK after I had ds2 it was clear to me that ex and he are not particularly close. Ex insisted on this man being ds2's 'godfather' (we had a non-traditional ceremony) and it was just odd. The man doesn't speak much English, ex speaks imperfect Italian, and they're just aren't very close. He came for dinner and it was just awkward - lots of long silences and a weird atmosphere. I think ex is in love with the idea of being Italian/having Italian friends, and I suppose the man was being polite for the sake of his father?? I know ex has been to stay with him a few times since we split, and I feel like he forces himself on him as a way of getting a cheap holiday. I just find it embarrassing, though it's nothing to do with me anymore, and I don't want the dc going to stay with him as it will be an awkward atmosphere and they are old enough to notice.

1. The place he lives is not a great holiday destination and the dc will be bored, ex is shit at entertaining them, and the atmosphere will be off, as above. It will not be a holiday as they have been experiencing them with me, but I don't think ex will be capable of making it a fun alternative either.
2. With the Brexit disaster, I'm not booking ahead like I usually do, and if it comes to booking after March (assuming we can) I don't want to have to factor in his plans too.
3. Finally, and least importantly, but it does rankle, he has never paid any CM for them and is in arrears with CMS. He provides nothing at his either, so I have to send pretty much everything. The holiday will cost at least £600, just in flights, and I feel he should be spending this on stuff they need, not a shit holiday they won't enjoy. He is on a ridiculously low income because of his irresponsible attitude, and this feels like a poor use of money and is just being done so he can say he takes them away too.

AIBU in thinking he shouldn't be planning this and to say so?

Are you the poster whose son said ‘I look bad, don’t I?’ after your ex’s family made some comments about his physique? Because that killed me, poor little scrap.

Yes, that's me Kitty. Thanks for your comments .

let them go,it probably wont happen anyway by what hes like

then you dont look like the controlling ex

They get bored because he doesn't interact much and then gets snappy when their behaviour deteriorates/any issues arise

At age 11 & 9, why is their behaviour bad, and why is it wrong for him to tell them off if they misbehave? And why do they need "entertaining"?

Having read all your subsequent posts OP, YADNBU at all.

And this equal parenting rights thing is only valid if the NRP actually fucking parents!

'I'm very happy to hear that your situation has improved enough to cover the expense of a holiday to Italy. Really wonderful news. I assume, given this change in circumstances, that you've already been in contact with CMS to set up regular child support payments for the DC? And yes, I can certainly let you know my holiday dates for next year. My telling you them will coincide with the date CMS write to me with the agreed maintenance arrangement.'

Seriously. What a prick.

Money aside, OP, no, I don't think it's for you to say no, maddening as that may be. You have my sympathies, but the fact is, they're his kids too, even if he likes to flout his day-to-day financial responsibilities to them. I would, however, make it very clear that all associated holiday costs must be budgeted for and covered by him (clothes, shoes, toiletries, spending money, etc.), because you will not be providing them. His holiday time with his children = all his financial responsibility. Hopefully that way you can wrangle some of their summer wardrobe costs from him if he isn't contributing towards them otherwise.

First of all Duchess, are you me from ten years ago?! You have just described my ex (apart from wanting to be Italian) and pretty much our situation, to a T!

Speaking from experience, I'm afraid you will have to suck it up and let him take the kids to Italy next summer. It is super difficult and it really REALLY grates, but you have to let all the other crap fall by the wayside.

Your kids might moan about being with him, but they equally may have moaned about doing something with you both if you were still together. Kids moan. Try and look past that and hope that a trip to Italy will have something enjoyable in store for the kids. If not, then they'll be bored but that's not the worst thing in the world.

As much as it royally pissed me off that my ex got away without paying one penny of maintenance, my mental health was much better when I let that shit go. I know the feeling of anger and resentment that he was getting away with being a "Deadbeat Dad" and I was left paying for everything.

They are young for such a short time and in 9 years when your youngest is 18, this won't matter any more. Don't let it continue to wind you up. Just hold your head up and be the best mother you can be. Don't sweat the stuff you can't control.

If he's taking them away for a week next week, why not say you'll figure it out when he gets back. He may realise that a week is too long?

Suck it up, if the dc want to go away then why shouldn’t they. There entertainment and holiday plans are not to your liking - your not going

Your long list of reasons why they shouldn’t go... it’s setting you out as controlling and picky

Your ex doesn’t pay child maintenance- then use the system in place to make sure he does

Poor kid. His father / father’s family shouldn’t be making him feel this way. I really love the letter idea of him having to prove himself to be financially sound. Hopefully that will put him off as it either proves he isn’t or shows you that he could afford to pay you cm.

Are all other 11 & 9 year olds perfect then ? Gosh. I didn't say their behaviour was generally bad, but they have their moments, perhaps exacerbated by our circumstances, who knows, and ex doesn't cope well.

They don't generally need entertaining, but might in a new environment without many of their belongings around them in a place not designed for kids/holidays.

Ds1 has described ex as 'distant' and 'unpredictable', and I think that's more of a reflection of ex's shortcomings than my children's.

Husky
Fgs preteens are not robots. They get tired, grumpy and going to want to be entertained in an unfamiliar environment. They can’t just get in their car and drive to the beach.

At age 11 & 9, why is their behaviour bad, and why is it wrong for him to tell them off if they misbehave? And why do they need "entertaining"?

He’s not telling them off, he’s snapping at them.

Why do they need entertaining? Have you actually met any children?

My situation was maybe a little different in that withholding maintenance means I'm on the bones of my arse and going without stuff so my kids can eat.

It was way more than 'maybe a little different'.

The OP has just returned from 10 days in France, takes the DC abroad every summer and on short breaks away.

She couldn't do that if she was on the bones of her arse.

Yes, I prioritise holidays over other non-essential things as I think they're a great bonding experience, so not loaded but not on the bones of my arse either.

It's disgusting that the CMS seems to be pretty useless at getting any money off these men and there seem to be no consequences for them either - they just get away with not paying.

It's disgusting that the CMS seems to be pretty useless at getting any money off these men and there seem to be no consequences for them either - they just get away with not paying

Yup. 11 years and counting with DS1s Dad. Prick.

@theduchessstill They CAN take direct from his earnings! It's done via HMRC and is taken at the point tax is taken. I know because they did it to my ex x

They CAN take direct from his earnings! It's done via HMRC and is taken at the point tax is taken. I know because they did it to my ex

Only if they stay in work, or don’t jump frim job to job or do agency work.

OP just wait - give this some time, at least let them have this holiday as previous posters have said. I bet this Italy thing all goes tits up anyway. All posters saying oh yes he's the dad he has rights, look up thread at what happened to OP's son when the Ex's family were allowed to criticise him - horrible.

Let the DC go on the holiday this year with EX and GP’s, give them a mobile to call you on if they are upset. I hope they have as good a time as they can. I agree that they are old enough now to say that they don’t want to go on any more holidays with them, even if it has gone better than expected. After they have got back, you can sit down with them and have a talk about it. You might find that they want to reduce contact with their dad as well, and alter to a different pattern of contact.

Tell EX that you have no firm plans as yet so cannot advise of holiday availability of the DS’ for next year. Don’t tell him anything about the DS’ wishes until after the hol next week and you have ascertained what they want.

I think that the GP’s sound awful, picking on them.

Why do they need entertaining? Have you actually met any children?

I have 2 thanks! Both successful adults now. Op's kids are 11 & 9, they aren't babies. And, as hard as it is, she can't dictate where he decides to take them on holiday.

Marydollnesbitt text is very good. Because the money thing needs to be sorted.

If the kids have said they don’t want to go, then they shouldn’t be forced to do so.

No need to give him any answers yet. Wait till they come back from this one and have a long chat with them about how they feel. Tell him you are thinking about it and ask him to clarify a few things such how they will be entertained etc..

Another one here who has to say you need to separate the CMS issue. That is a whole other issue.

The father is entitled to contact with his children and to take them on holiday. I suspect your children pick up on your anti-ex attitude and feel they need to show you the same. I suspect they do have an okay time with him when they are there.

Yes - YABU. You don’t get to tell him how to parent his children or prevent access. Shit he isn’t paying - but not a reason to,withdraw access