AIBU - Help - Prisoner Release Electronic Monitoring Device Wattage

[Zilla1]

Grateful for any information. I expect there may be some negative replies and there's lots of backstory so I will probably end up dripfeeding in response to questions and any negative replies. I don't want to start with a long essay that might be outing for the people concerned.

I'm part of the support network for two soon-to-be-released vulnerable prisoners in the UK (England) who are scheduled to be released soon on a licence with electronic monitoring devices. We need to know what the power requirements (wattage) are for the electronic monitoring equipment base station. I presume (hope) there will be a label that states the wattage - I would expect this on consumer electronic equipment though have no understanding of whether this might be stated on non-consumer equipment. If there are any family members of prisoners or prisoners themselves released on a licence who could check their equipment and let me know then I'd be really grateful.

I've tried various ways of finding out. The only document I could find is a UK government document that states it consumes less than 3p of electricity a day but doesn't give accurate information about how that was calculated. I worked through the numbers based on current prices for KWh but don't want to risk people being forced to return to prison based on making an inaccurate assumption.

I have already spoken with the relevant local probation service and with the Electronic Monitoring Service call centre and suppliers and, unfortunately, neither were able to help. We are trying to prevent the prisoners being returned to prison to serve their full sentence.

I've asked on a few different prisoner/family/support forums (fora?) and not had a reply but at least one didn't look like it was very active.

In case anyone has moral qualms, the prisoners were convicted of non-violent offences (In case anyone understandably takes offence, I'm not minimising these types of offence). I can't go into too much detail but the apparent shortcomings of the trial and of the custody for two vulnerable people were eye-opening to me. I don't think the anticipated successful appeal will ever make this right for them but we want to try and set things in place so they can return home at the earliest opportunity.

Thank you.

Why do you need to know? I’m curious as I can’t help at all I’m afraid.

Is there a worry that they can’t top up the electricity and therefore the device might lose power or something?

Is this because of a lack of mains electricity?

Why wouldn't it be the same as any UK appliance? I've done a bit of a Google and can't see anything to suggest that you wouldn't charge as with any other electrical item. Strange that nobody in the probation service etc can answer such a simple question.

Why not contact the manufacturers ?

DIana,

I'm trying not to say as it will probably be identifying and they don't want to risk causing trouble or be identified by their probation officer or OMU (offender management unit?). With a live appeal and risk of returning to prison, they are scared. They're not on a prepayment meter and the issue doesn't relate to 'topping up' a prepayment meter.

Best wishes

There's different types/brands of tag l think - probably with different power usage rates.

You might need to be more specific about what exactly you're worried about.

DGR,

I've contacted the installers who couldn't/wouldn't tell me how much power it draws nor who the manufacturer is and I've not been able to find out elsewhere. I've never seen the equipment elsewhere.

I'd expect the manuacturer not to respond to public enquiries given the security implications of the justice sector though would be happy to try if someone could tell me which company makes the monitoring equipment.

Best wishes

You could use a plugin energy meter to find out but that only helps once you have the base station. I'd be surprised if it was more than a few Watts.

It seems extremely strange that you need to know this, but I shall refrain from posting speculation about why.

Spotted,

I think there are a few versions so hoped that there might be a range of answers if any family members or ex-prisoners are on AIBU and willing to help. I'd expect them to draw similar power and I'd use the the highest figure with a cushion for what I need.

What I and they are worried about are the prisoners being returned to jail if the installer won't install the equipment or the probation officer or OMU aren't happy.

Best wishes

Perhaps try a more specialist technical forum ?

I'm starting to wonder if this unit is approved for use in the UK/EU ? US vendors can be a little ... hazy on certification. Especially when the actual kit comes from China.

For what it's worth, absent any more details, I'd plump for the equivalence of a DECT base station ?

Which

energyusecalculator.com/electricity_phone.htm

Suggests is c. 2-3 watts. Even if you treble that and and one, it's no more than 10W.

I can't think of any reason why you would need to know this, or what that has to do with your belief that 2 convicted and sentenced criminals are innocent unfortunates?

Would a smart meter being attached for a day give enough information?
If there’s someone else who has one they could try that and let you know?

Safari,

As you say, if it is installed then we could use an energy monitor (or a multimeter) if it didn't have a label though we are trying to sort this out to avoid the installation not going ahead.

Best wishes,

I know you say you have spoken to suppliers but try again. Our area is covered by capita. Have you seen one before? It's like a fax machine size with a phone on. They don't use much power at all. I'm trying to find one local to me to find out details for you. I work with people that install them for people on licence or whatever there reasons etc.

What I and they are worried about are the prisoners being returned to jail if the installer won't install the equipment or the probation officer or OMU aren't happy.

Presumably the unit has to be more than just "plugged in" ?

Even so I would hope it had some capability of being isolated from the mains by the householder. Even if it's a break-once glass sealed fuse ...

All I can say is this thread isn't inspiring me with any confidence in the UKs offender management systems. Is austerity leading to a more DIY approach ?

If the question is more can the wiring / electrics where they will be cope with the base unit perhaps that is what you need to ask them?

Put it back on the installers or whoever to confirm that if the electrics are rated for this Wattage the base unit will not exceed that and trip something.

DGR,

Thank you. My estimate was for around 30w but I think your DECT basestation suggestion is helpful. I do and would feel anxious using an assumption if the results of getting it wring led to two people risking being returned to jail hence having spent quite a lot of time on calling the probation services, electronic monitoring call centre and other fora. I might try an electricians forum in case it has any installers on though haven't been able to find a suitable forum hence my enquiry to the Mumsnet AIBU collective wisdom and experience.

The box is plugged into the wall and has anti tamper tape over the plug. It has an alarm fitted and a phone. It will ring if they suspect you have left the house and if not answered by the person on tag officers will be sent round

I'd guess most people have no idea on demand as the draw is probably pretty low (indicated by the 3p per day info) for a standard household power supply, so assuming this is a non-standard set-up for whatever reason. If that's the case then the circumstances could be more of an issue than access to power. If the power supply is tenuous is a generator available/solar trickle charger for deep cycle battery?

Dear Chazs,

Before all this, I would have expected the installers to be able to proactively help.

I was told they would turn up at 3pm on the day of release and, at it's worst, if they don't agree to the installation then the released prisoners will go back to jail.

We've been told by others that it 'probably wouldn't come to that' and that the prisoner might be able to stay at home and the police might agree to drive by at night to make sure the released prisoners are inside but this or relying on what might be the 'goodwill' of the probation officer, installer or police has scared the people involved. I've decided if it were me inside (Please, God, never let that happen), I'd hope my support would try their best to prevent any unnecessary return.

God that is crap. This is someone's liberty and rehabilitation not installing a kettle.

I do think it might help to have something in writing showing you have made it clear in advance that there were "non-standard" electrics.

Could a local MP help?

Crap of the installers I hasten to add in case my post wasn't clear

Sorry but they will 100% go back to prison if it’s not installed. They are being released on the basis that they will be electronically monitored. There is no such thing as a police “drive by”. There are doorstep curfews but those are generally used for bail cases. Not released prisoners. I’m not sure why you need to know the exact specifications. The power used is very low, that’s really all anyone needs to know. Also it’s not exactly 3pm, it’s anytime from 3pm onwards. Could be 7 or 9 etc. But the prisoner needs to be there from 3. And probation officers don’t work on “good will”. Decisions are made based on risk. But an individual refusing to have the equipment installed? That’s a definite recall.

Storm
I don't think the individual will be refusing rather the installers will say its not possible.

The impression I am getting is that the individuals live somewhere with a non standard electricity supply so there is a concern if their electrics will be able to support the functioning of the base unit.

Trev,

Thank you. If you are able to find any information about the draw, I'd be grateful. I don't know any installers nor any released prisoners before these.

I've spoken with Capita several times and unfortunately couldn't get beyond the front end call centre - ''We just create the paperwork that is sent to the installer who attends on the day at 3pm. There isn't a technical help section and we can't/won't put you in touch with any installer".

This was after explanations why we needed to discuss which the people I spoke to all said they understood and recognised as legitimate/relevant.

To be fair, the message I had to listen to while waiting to speak to someone was upfront about telephone abuse and I expect the call handlers receive some terrible abuse.

Thank you.