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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To disregard ofsted report?

36 replies

10oclocknews · 07/08/2018 12:35

I have 2 children one going into yr1 and another going into yr 6. We are relocating to another part of the country next month and so the children will move schools. There are 2 schools close to where we will be going, similar distances. One is rated good and the other requiring improvement. Both have effective safeguarding policies. My children’s cousins go to the School rated as requiring improvement and this could be handy if needing to share drop offs and pickups as I work shifts.
I’ve looked at the websites for both and their ethos and activities etc (cannot visit yet as they are closed).
The one rated as good seems to focus very much on academic achievement and whilst it does a lot of sports it doesn’t seem to do many other things outside of school. Their website also seems very formal. It has been a good school for a number of years with steady staffing and a number of mixed yr groups. All positive right?!

However having looked at the other school which is rated as requiring improvement their website seems much more inviting and their focus seems to be more on children’s well-being and pastoral care and promoting enjoyment of learning. Their attainment at end of key stage 1 and 2 is either in line or exceeding the national average, but the report highlights a high turnover of staff, although this is being rectified, and they have a clear plan for improvement and identifying their weaknesses. They also do lots of trips and outside learning and take a cross curricular approach in there trembly themes which is similar to their current school. Overall the one that is rated as requiring improvement seems more appealing to me on the face of it (if you disregard ofsted).

Obviously education is important and I want to make the right choices for them.

What are your opinions and thoughts on ofsted? WWYD?

Thanks

OP posts:

MeanTangerine · 07/08/2018 12:40

Do you know any teachers locally, or any one who knows a teacher well?

A poor website reflects more on a school's web design team than it does on the school.

Apart from high turnover of staff, why was the second school rated RI? Have there been staffing changes in senior management since?

SureIusedtobetaller · 07/08/2018 12:46

Why is the RI school in RI? If it’s something you aren’t worried about then I would disregard it.
High turnover of staff- could be temporary due to change of head, or could show that there are deeper issues.
Some of the good schools I know of are not nice places to work- they take lots of nqts and run them into the ground. Lots of youth and enthusiasm but little experience plus unsympathetic leadership.
RI used to be “satisfactory”. If you think your children would be happier there then I would go for it.

Pengggwn · 07/08/2018 12:47

Whichever you prefer is probably best, but the RI school won't have been given RI because of a high turnover of staff. That isn't a factor in the judgement per se, it is part of the explanation for the need for improvement.

MissSusanSays · 07/08/2018 12:51

Look at the report. If they are RI for effectiveness of leadership or progress then I would not touch it with a barge pole. It will mean there are deep structural issues with the school that are holding children back.

TBF- I am leaving a school that has gone from RI to good. All that has happened is the pressure has increased in staff and there for at least 400 daft initiatives. I predict they won’t keep their good in the next inspection.

Original poster

10oclocknews · 07/08/2018 12:53

MeanTangerine, no is don’t know any teachers although my cousins children go there. Her son is doing fine but her daughter struggled due to her own abilities and because of frequent changes of teacher. Her last yr 6 teacher however was new and was fantastic and really helped her confidence. They do seem to be addressing the issues according to my cousin, although these are questions I will ask myself when we can visit.
My decision was based on their commitment to well being which I think is very important and their cross curricular approach to themes rather than learning subjects in isolation....and the many trip and extra curricular things they offer.

You make a good point about the website though.

I don’t remember my parents stressing this much when we were younger 🙈

OP posts:

seven201 · 07/08/2018 12:56

What do you nieces and nephews, and their parents think of it? When was the ofsted? Things can change very quickly. It wouldn't put me fully off.

BackforGood · 07/08/2018 13:01

Agree with others, IME a school's website only reflects how interested the staff member who has to update the website is - I wouldn't rule a school out on that.
It you've not been able to speak to the school, do you know there will be places?
Can you speak to the LA admission's team ?
I wouldn't underestimate the value of having family at the same school - as long as the have agreed about picking up / dropping off your dc of course .
I visit a lot of Nurseries, in my case, as part of my job, and I rarely see any correlation between the OFSTED rating and how good the Nursery is. My own personal experience tells me the same.

MistakenHoliday · 07/08/2018 13:04

As a teacher, I don't think there's anything wrong with an RI school per se, but the turnover of staff would be a worry if it's ongoing as it could imply a lack of effectiveness by leadership. I think that when the school went into RI is important too; the new ofsted criteria is much more challenging than it was and lots of schools have been 'downgraded' because of this.

I think you're right in thinking you need to see the school in person too - not that that's helpful in the holidays!

Good luck OP

RedSkyLastNight · 07/08/2018 13:05

You really can't tell based on the website (my DC's junior school was only updated about once a year).

If your children's cousins go to the school they must live in the area and have some views about both schools surely? Or certainly know people who go to both.

Require improvement used to be Satisfactory. I wouldn't base my decision on the Ofsted report either.
Is there no chance of a tour of either school before you have to decide?

Cambionome · 07/08/2018 13:15

Have you read the Ofsted reports for both schools? Should be on the websites.

Generally, having worked in schools for years, I wouldn't just go by Ofsted. Sometimes (though not always) good or outstanding schools put a massive amount of emphasis on teaching for Sats and not on all round child development and a well balanced curriculum.

TheHonGalahadThreepwood · 07/08/2018 13:20

Talk to your relations (the ones with children at the school). They will be able to tell you far more accurately what the school is like. I would also want to visit them both in person before deciding.

HighwayDragon1 · 07/08/2018 13:25

There is a to school in our area, no way in hell I'd send any child of mine there. The report also focuses on pastoral care, but behaviour and staff turnover is terrible.

Look round both schools, make a decision, but be aware

frecklesMaybe · 07/08/2018 13:26

As a teacher I find the fact you rate "safeguarding policies" as something I only ever hear on MN.

I can't help but wonder if you're lining up to be that parent.

"I don’t remember my parents stressing this much when we were younger"

and look how that turned out ...

Camomila · 07/08/2018 13:28

I think sometimes you have to go with your gut feelings on things, regardless of ofsted.
FWIW I like the sound of the first school better...based on my own DS...I think you'll know what suits your DC.

Pengggwn · 07/08/2018 13:59

To me, safeguarding is a basic requirement. I wouldn't send my child to a school with numerous safeguarding failings in its recent history, but otherwise, I'd assume my child was going to be safe and focus on the quality of the education provided.

Pengggwn · 07/08/2018 14:00

Sorry, I should say, because the fact that a school has safeguarding mentioned in its Ofsted as a strength doesn't mean it is better than other schools at that; it just means they are fulfilling the most basic requirement to a satisfactory level.

PsychoPumpkin · 07/08/2018 14:10

I moved my child from a school rated excellent to a school that requires improvement and thought myself quite mad at the time.

The ‘excellent’ school however was a church school and my daughter was coming home very confused by some of the things that were taught (that’s a thread in itself) and there were some horrible bullying situations going on and reports made about it going missing. The school was odd, there was just some shady behaviour going on and I didn’t like it.

The new school was secular, teeny tiny class sizes and I knew the new head of this school from reputation. I just wanted to give my daughter a fresh start.

2 years later her old school is now requires improvement because of the leadership (the head has been replaced and the vicar has gone) and her new school has a good report and I’m so happy we made the switch.

I would go and see the schools before you make your mind up and get your own feel for them.

Original poster

10oclocknews · 07/08/2018 15:35

Not sure what you mean by look how that turned out frecklesMaybe, however I think safeguarding is important. I don’t rate it above all else, I was just pointing out that both schools were in a par in this area.

To me a school that maintains good relationships with home is important and I do not underestimate the importance of job satisfaction for teachers. From my experience most do a fantastic job under enormous pressure and ever changing goalposts hence why I don’t always think ofsted get it right.

Thank you to those who have replied. I will visit the schools and this will form the biggest part of my decision but just wanted others personal experience on reality vs ofsted. I think teachers can often relate to this more and I know there are a few on here so appreciate the responses.

Sometimes it’s good to consider others experiences and opinions to form a bigger picture.

OP posts:

CaptainHarville · 07/08/2018 15:47

High staff turnover would really concern me. It would suggest something is going on that means staff don't want to stay. Its very hard to make sustainable improvement if your staff constantly change. Staff who are in post short term can be less invested in making the changes that the school might need. Happy staff tend not to move school. I would be worried that the staff are an unhappy bunch and that doesn't make for a great school.

Pengggwn · 07/08/2018 15:47

OP, the schools will be on a par in safeguarding terms because neither in Inadequate. That's it. Safeguarding is either fine, or the school isn't.

You've been asked a number of times what the Ofsted report gives as the reason for RI?

MovingThisYearHopefully · 07/08/2018 15:53

You really can't tell until you visit them. Only then can you decide. As for Ofsted, well personally I suggest you take their reports with a huge bucket of salt. Its so easy for schools to manipulate Ofsted, particularly in a smaller school. I have witnessed this myself at my DC's old primary where parents likely to speak up about issues in the school were not given a parental questionnaire to fill out. When this happened I emailed Ofsted to let them know & offered to give my own experiences of the school, but they didn't respond. From then on I have completely disregarded Ofsted. Try to speak to other parents with kids at the schools. Go for what is easiest for you & what will suit your DC. Ignore Ofsted!

Norma27 · 07/08/2018 15:54

My daughter starts reception next month. In between applying and starting it has been put into special measures, as far as I can tell for one safeguarding issue.
I do know a few teachers there, and I also know other pupils and parents and am still happy for her to go there.
I don’t know what the issue actually was but think a lot of training will be put in place to ensure it doesn’t happen again. The rest of the report actually read amazing.
Last year a local secondary got put into special measures (from outstanding) as the sixth formers weren’t signing out as they should. That was my second choice for my older girl but I would have still been fine if she went there.
I am personally not a real fan of ofsted reports. I think they give a snapshot into a school but not necessarily the whole picture
My older daughter went to an outstanding primary but hasn’t been inspected since before the headteacher started, which was in 2010! She has been head of an outstanding school for 8 yrs but never been inspected herself.

Norma27 · 07/08/2018 15:54

BackforGood · 07/08/2018 16:00

If a HT has been there a long time, and then left, it is fairly normal for that to be followed by a lot of change in staff. Teachers who have 'got comfy' with "the way things used to be" sometimes then struggle when a new, enthusiastic HT comes in and starts making changes. This isn't necessarily a bad thing once the dust has settled (indeed, is generally much needed, when it happens).

So I'd look more deeply into how much staff turnover there has been - if, as it seems with your dn, it was one class, and someone left and they couldn't find the right person to replace them and it was a bad year for that class,, then it was bad news just for that class, that can just be circumstances sometimes (illness, bereavement, etc), but I'd do some more asking about before making a judgement on that.

mumsastudent · 07/08/2018 16:07

don't ofsted have parents viewpoint too? do a websearch 7 see if you can get some parents opinions - tho' my dh would say that its only the complainers say something. But check what they are saying you can tell if its an awkward parent with silly complaints! However - I know from people who work in childcare that ofsted isn't consistent in their marking & it can be affected by the background of the person assessing as to whether they are sympathetic to the establishment. I also think from my own experience in childcare that marks can depend on paperwork or policies rather than the old way of just watching interactions.

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