To think schools shouldn't teach religion as absolute fact?

[PoesyCherish]

DSD is 6 and is learning about Christianity in school. They're teaching her Jesus is the Son of God rather than "some people believe he is". Everything about the religion is taught as fact. They've also failed to mention anything about any other religion.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be teaching it as absolute fact? How are children supposed to be understanding and tolerant of other people's beliefs if they're taught one world view as fact?

[SarahDoY]

My point is there is a choice, you just don't like any on offer. People have to choose the least bad option every day over many things.

You have no PR for the child I assume and feel out of control?

Your wellbeing will be better served in my opinion by you engaging your inner adult, not patent and talk to the children. Children and adults are taught all kinds of things and you will do them a good deed by talking through the logic of any training given, you don't know the agenda of anyone.

Power and control are immature emotions, toddler stuff.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

"but surely if they're teaching Catholicism as fact it'll be teaching the other faiths as being wrong?"

Not necessarily. My kids went to a "community school" which served a diverse population in London. Plenty of Christian and Muslim kids, some Sikh and Jewish, etc. They also taught religion as fact but not just for the Christian stories they covered, other religious stories were presented as fact too. So lots of contradictory ideas about origin and the nature of God. It made for some interesting and pretty bizarre conversations over dinner.

I really don't think religion should be taught in school, other than as part of a broader look at culture, until children are in their teens. They don't have the cognitive capacity to deal with the ambiguity or uncertainty when they are that young. It's either indoctrination or it's a hollow and disconnected look at small part of culture. Cultural studies and philosophy would be far better.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

"You don't get to say, "You (faith school) are our only realistic option, so we demand you change to suit us"."

Of course people get to say this. We live in a democracy where we have told schools of all sorts what to do in all sorts of ways. One person saying it isn't going to make it so, but voicing discontent is a large part of advocating for change.

[Winebottle]

I agree that science and history don't treat things as set in stone and are open to challenge in a way that religion is not but I don't think that is conveyed at school. You are taught 'this happened' not 'the general consensus among leading academics is this happened but not everyone agrees'. And in the case of Newtonian physics, you are taught as fact things that have since been proved wrong.

Even in science and history there are views widely accepted and those that aren't. If you think Henry VIII had 10 wives, you would be considered wrong. There is the possibility new evidence will come to light to prove you right but it is unlikely.

I don't see why religion is any different. If you believe Jesus walked on water then you believe people who don't think that are wrong. As long as it is wrong in the sense of incorrect rather than immoral, I don't see a problem. There is always a possibility you are wrong, that's a given but you still believe what you believe.

[Hairgician]

Shouldnt be taught religion in school full stop. Imo. Go to church for that.

[Fatted]

Honestly, I do think YABU about a Catholic school teaching Christianity and not including other religions.

If you're not happy about it I would consider another school.

[PoesyCherish]

Shouldnt be taught religion in school full stop. Imo. Go to church for that.

But @hairgician how would people learn about other religions? I get what you're saying but then I think people would only ever be taught the religion their parents believe in (or not if you're an atheist).

And in the case of Newtonian physics, you are taught as fact things that have since been proved wrong.

That's actually a really good point @Winebottle. Thinking back I do remember being taught facts at GCSE science and then told at A Level no that's wrong, we just massively simplified it so you'd be able to understand the concept.

My point is there is a choice, you just don't like any on offer. People have to choose the least bad option every day over many things.

You have no PR for the child I assume and feel out of control?

@SarahDoY I was talking in a general sense re not moving or home schooling or any other option, not specifically about my own situation. I'm grateful that because we live a few miles away, DP and I do have the option of non faith schools unless they close them before we get around to having DC

I don't feel out of control at all. It's not for me to control or not. I was more just pondering the issue in a general sense and a bit shocked DSD is taught it as facts as I didn't think they would have gone down that route. Curious as to how others view it hence starting the thread.

[BoomBoomsCousin]

Honestly, I do agree with you that schools funded by taxes should not teach one religion as correct over others or indoctrinate children in religion. We are building problems for ourselves as a society allowing religions this sort of funding to push narrow agendas that aren't in the public interest.

[Rebecca36]

You have to accept it if it is a faith school, after all parents generally send their child to a faith school because they believe in it.

Other schools don't teach Christianity as fact though.

[Pengggwn]

BoomBoomsCousin

Okay. Well, duh. She can 'say' what she likes. But not without people thinking it is hypocritical.

[catherinedevalois]

Unless you were in the classroom at the time I don't think you can say that it wasn't introduced as 'some people believe'. Also this is probably a Christianity unit and a Hindu/Buddhist/Jewish unit will happen in another term so yes it will be all about Christianity at the moment. I don't think you can expect a teacher to preface every statement over a half-term with 'some people believe' . Perhaps once a lesson? A 6 year old won't necessarily pick up on the difference.

During worship which might happen twice a day it will be 'taught' as 'fact', maybe she is getting mixed messages.

It's not up to schools to give a balanced view of different faiths. There will be more emphasis on Christianity and definitely so in church schools. Yes, they cover all faiths as part of the curriculum but faith is a personal thing and up to the family to educate really.

Should RE be taught in schools? Absolutely. Should community schools hold daily c of e worship? No, a million times no. It's about time this archaic nod to our state religion was consigned to the rubbish bin.

[PoesyCherish]

Also this is probably a Christianity unit and a Hindu/Buddhist/Jewish unit will happen in another term so yes it will be all about Christianity at the moment

@catherinedevalois possibly but she's been there 2 years now. Wouldn't they have covered another religion at least once by now?

Should community schools hold daily c of e worship? No, a million times no. It's about time this archaic nod to our state religion was consigned to the rubbish bin.

Totally agree with this ^^

Okay. Well, duh. She can 'say' what she likes. But not without people thinking it is hypocritical.

@Pengggwn which bit is hypocritical?

[SilverySurfer]

Child attends RC school and is taught RE - it's somewhat unrealistic to expect the teacher to say 'this is what I believe but it's not fact. The parents should be talking to the child and explaining that this is what some people believe but there are many other religions and many people don't believe in God exists at all etc.

[Pengggwn]

PoesyCherish

The bit where you support the child having been sent to the faith school because it was easier, but you think the school - which is quite clearly a faith school with a clear agenda - should change to suit people who don't want their children educated in a faith.

Surely those parents should do the sensible thing and bugger off elsewhere, rather than sit there moaning about a biased message that was so transparently biased and always has been?

[kierenthecommunity]

Tangent, but...

There’s a primary school with 2000 pupils? How many forms per year are there? 😳

[rainingcatsanddog]

I also would prefer religion not to play a part in education

I would personally have RE teaching start in y5/6.

When kids are young, it can be inevitable that young kids will want to be the same religion as their adored teacher. By waiting until they are much older, kids will understand that religion is about what certain groups believe as they will see older Muslims fast for Ramadan, a Jewish classmate say that they celebrate Hanukkah rather than Christmas or a Christian give up something for Lent.

[PoesyCherish]

Surely those parents should do the sensible thing and bugger off elsewhere

@Pengggwn so her disabled mother who couldn't drive should have done what exactly? Given up any form of weekday custody so DP could drive their daughter to the school miles away? Never be involved in her daughter's schooling because she wouldn't have been able to get to the school had she not gone to the RC school? I support her being there because it's not my place to do anything other than support DP (and to a certain extent her mother) in educational decisions.

I like that idea @rainingcatsanddog

@kieren I honestly have no idea how big their form groups are. Maybe it's similar to a lot of secondary schools where the forms are roughly 30 students but there are a lot of forms per year group? Whereas DSD's school doesn't even have one form per year group, I think she has about 5 classes so some of the year groups are merged and they stay with the same teacher for 2 years sometimes.

[Pengggwn]

I'm trying to think of an analogy. It's a bit like joining a sobriety group and then saying you find it shocking that they preach against alcohol, because actually you think alcohol isn't that bad.

Or it's like having two shops near you, one an organic, vegan, rather expensive one 25m down the road, one a much cheaper one with a wider range 2 miles away, and then insisting on shopping at the organic vegan store, but also demanding that they increase their product range and drop their prices, because you quite like cheap chicken.

[Bowerbird5]

No, it unlikely at that age to cover other religions but she will have covered things like Harvest which will bring in other people.

I don't know what other religions they teach in KS 1 in a Catholic school but you could simply ask.

KS 2 usually learn about Christianity and two other religions. One at Yr3&4 and another at Yr 5&6.

Community schools have some assemblies with a Christian slant but not every assembly.

[Pengggwn]

so her disabled mother who couldn't drive should have done what exactly?

Whatever the difficulties of her situation, she CHOSE a faith school, with a religious ethos, because other factors made it the best choice for her. That choice had implications.

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

Why not just opt her out of the RE class and teach her about different religions at home? Problem solved for you.

Not so much for the other indoctrinated children but our society still has a way to go before we escape religion.

[storycubes]

In my experience (catholic, c of e and non faith schools) the catholic schools teach Catholicism as fact. They also teach all the bullshit dogma as fact as well. They are supposed to teach about other religions but in my experience this is very very Minimal and very dismissive and disrespectful.

Other schools teach as this is what x faith believes for the most part with assemblies etc having a found on whatever the faith of the School is.

All school have to teach religion and have a daily act of prayer or worship. This is usually done by saying grace before lunch (or signing to silly tunes in our schools case)

[Bowerbird5]

Pengggwn 😁

[storycubes]

Despite a faith school ours stills says this is what we believe. This is what x, y, z believe.

[user1499173618]

My DD (13) is at a Catholic school. She had sex ed in biology last year, which was pretty mainstream and factual. Not as complete on contraception as I would have liked but there were time constraints. She also had sex/relationships ed in her religion class. It was really quite a different POV to the biology class version. I thought the contrasting opinions were useful, and DD found the comparison fairly hilarious!