Enid Blyton - what changes are/are not OK?

[VictoriaOKeefe]

My example:
Jo-Jo in the Island of Adventure - i think Jo-Jo should have been kept as a black villain but with the "rolling eyes" and "nigra" speech removed. Changing him to a white man sends the dangerous message to children that a member of a marginalised group cannot be a nasty, small-minded jerk (as TPratchett put it). Women are marginalised but i wouldn't pee on my cruel abrasive mother if she was on fire.

Anyone remember the put em rights? Some posters on here would have a field day with that one.
I loved Blytons books in the 1970s.

So, on the back of this thread (just because, I'll admit, I wanted some "they're not so bad" comebacks) I just listened to long suffering DH reading a Five Find-Outers book to me.

And those who say they're full of innappropriate shite are totally right!!!

Fat shaming? Pip, the chauvanistic little sod? Ffs!

I have NEVER changed camps so bloody fast! I'm like a dog with a bone- I'll argue to the death if I think I'm right.

Fuck a moose! I can just imagine EB's AIBU...

"AIBU to bring my kids up to know their place? There's a fat boy down the road who is untrustworthy because of his weight. Bets likes him, but she's only a girl- so I can pat her on the head and dismiss her views totally".

Sorry about the dramatic post- but...

Oh, and the kicker? It's not as if I can even blame ignorsnce regarding racism for my arguing upthread- as I'm not white! (Hope this makes sense).

I apologize for anyone I have offended. 💖

There was racism against gypsies if I remember rightly.

My in-laws found a box of old books from when the children were young and, in one of them, Topsy & Tim instinctively black-up their faces because they're 'playing at being Gypsies'. Whether it was a racial slur and/or naturally assumed that 'Gipsies' would be dirty and unwashed, wasn't explained. I've not seen an adaptation of that episode on CBeebies yet....

*to

Tbf, I recall a Topsy and Tim book which made glasses look cool and "acceptable"? We'd just come to visit the UK for the first time, so it would have been about 1984?

Though obviously not as shocking as the racism, EB always wrote from the very basic assumption that everybody (well, all the nice people, anyway) were posh and very rich. IIRC, there would be an explanation as to why one girl's father (of course) COULDN'T afford to pay her school fees for this term (severe illness or whatever), but it was automatically assumed that it was the norm to be able to pay. Also, owning a car (not to mention 'sending it with a driver' - because daddy was obviously far too busy and important to drive or visit his children himself) - when most families most definitely wouldn't have dreamt of owning one. See also: having a cook, governess and gardener (to whom even the children automatically talked down and gave orders) and owning an island in Devon. We didn't have ginger beer and macaroons in the Midlands - we had council pop and Chewitts.

Tbf, I recall a Topsy and Tim book which made glasses look cool and "acceptable"? We'd just come to visit the UK for the first time, so it would have been about 1984?

Oh, I'm sure they probably meant well and wanted to do good. It just wasn't anywhere on their radar that 'Gipsy' children's feelings could possibly even be a thing. Unless they assumed that they wouldn't be able to ready anyway

It's like a fucking revelation, this thread...

It's made me remember- or realize- ALL the prejudiced shite that went on in the "school" books! (This is going to sound like an excuse, but I had a fucked up childhood, EB was my escapeism- glimpses into "normal life", and Aspies can be extremely narrow minded. I repeat, NOT an excuse).

Just the weight issues alone!!! Gwendoline, Jo, Alma.

Jo's father was AMERICAN...so of course she's going to be screwed from the start (sark alert btw)

Alma...and her "cravings". Bulimia was already "known about" then- Henry VIII used to encourage it ffs!- but it was ok to call her "Pudding".

Clarissa and her buck teeth, glasses, and red hair! Only looked "beautiful" when she had her teeth and eyes fixed on the same day.

Bill (MT) and George (FF) who didn't fall into the "girly girl" category.

And I'm convinced that Irene had a lot of my aspie traits. (This one should be let go, because I guess The Spectrum wasn't around in the 40s)

WeBuilt agreed!

Daphne, Ellen, etc...their poorness was always the "revelation" and had a chapter all of it's own!

I have a feeling it wasn't just ignorance either...

Why did she always make the villain (Jo FF, etc) the "unlikely hero"?

One aspect of EB which worried me as a child was the stupidity of the local policeman in the Mystery series. Since I read newspapers from 5 I knew they often solved cases yet here was one, overweight, with his helmet and bicycle, who was always shown up by nosy yet successful children. I thought they ought to be able to help each other! Lazy stereotyping.

Agreed. If Goon was the obly beat on any of our blocks, we'd be basically fucked! 😁

@Beeziekn33ze

But you're missing the whole point - as an on-the-beat police officer, he was clearly working-class. Working-class = stupid, don't you get it?!?! How could a grown-up oik such as he possibly be a match for a group of spoilt well-to-do brats children from inbred decent homes?!

Still, it would be lovely if we currently had the same crime levels that you find in EB's world. I'd gladly take a presumed-stolen-yet-actually-misplaced bicycle over some wayward public schoolboy wanting to 'shank me up gud an' ting'.

I'd gladly take a presumed-stolen-yet-actually-misplaced bicycle

As in accept the commonplace scenario of - not suggesting I'd be after actually pilfering the bike myself!

Bill Robinson from MT isn't trans. Despite her name preference she seems to be quite happy being a tomboy girl.

Jo's father was AMERICAN.

Was he actually American? He had an American car, but I don't recall anything about him being American himself. He was, of course, common and vulgar, which in EB's world was as 'bad' as being American. Reading between the lines, I think he had a drink problem, with his erratic driving, and wandering round red-faced and sweaty making loud and inappropriate jokes at half-term.

Jo's father wasn't American- he was common. Zelda was the American.

I absolutely loved her books when I was young. They gave me so much pleasure, and I also have a degree in English Lit. They represent a time and a place, you can't undo social history. We learn and we change.

With all the looking down on "chavs" and "bogans", many of the people here seem to have a problem with the lower classes themselves.

Don't censor, explain

So this is Chinky Pixie, you know the word Chinky of course it's a deroragtive term for Chinese people, here in the story he's smaller than the kids, struggling with giant boots and small brushes, essentially an overburdened worker for a Giant, an adult pixie who needs rescuing by kids. He's rescued here by the MC kids, so one of the themes EB was weaving in to the story was the idea that the job of the (English) MC was to rescue downtrodden and provide them with better jobs and care.

Many middle class English people at the time believed it was the job of English people (well white middle class ones) to look after the people of countries who they thought of as lesser - Kipling wrote a poem called the "The White Man's Burden", they may have had good notions, but even by the time EB was writing the wishing chair books there was a lot of educated opposition. You may have heard of Gandhi, as perhaps one of the more famous characters who disagreed with the idea of paternalistic imperialism.

So yes, you can explain about the themes, but it's not just "no chinky isn't a good word to use to describe someone from China", the actual bias and themes she's introducing with her characters are significant and yes interesting discussions to have, but I'm barely past page five of a wishing tree book and I've spent more time talking about it than the story.

I really don't agree btw that Chinky was chosen to be anything but suggestive of a Chinese person, like eenie-meenie, there were similar kids rhymes at the time about Chinese.

I suppose we will have to get rid of all those sexist and racist religious tomes too, as their attitudes are several thousand years out of date....

Thank you @AllRoadsLeadBackToRadley for the info about Jo's money. Presumably the change from £1 notes to £20 notes means she later stole a total of £180 from Matron's safe

Nothing should be changed. Erasing history in any fashion is not the way forwards.