Toxic family situation

[Sweetcarrielynne]

Looking for some advice on what a reasonable solution is to this toxic problem.

My granny died about 15 years ago, and for much of the time since then my granddad has lived with a woman we'll call Vera. They got together a year or so after granny died and had, for many years, a very happy relationship.

Things have in the last couple of years turned terribly, terribly sour. Vera is a few years younger than my grandfather and helps him a bit as he's become increasingly frail. For this reason he feels dependent on her. But he is terrified of her and I don't know when things changed exactly. He is now convinced she is only with him to try and get her hands on money (he is wealthy), he believes she has stolen from him but there is no evidence of this, he has told us that she has said terrible things to him (about disinheriting my dad and his brother, about me and my siblings / cousins being a drain on him) but we haven't heard her say these things ourselves. He is frightened and miserable but he can't face doing anything about it.

He seems compis mentis - no other indications of dementia or mental frailty at all. His depression (intermittent throughout his life) has returned full force, but he doesn't ever seem confused or uncertain. But it's so hard to square this up with the Vera we know, who has always been a nice lady and who behaves as normal on the rare occasions that we now see her.

Vera has two very difficult adult sons - one is a gambling addict who has had much of his inheritance in advance and lost it. He spent several months living with granddad and Vera and granddad several times found him rifling through papers in his private study etc. The other abandoned his wife and Vera now supports her DIL and grandchildren financially as her son has little to do with them. I don't know if they have anything to do with the present situation but they could be putting pressure on Vera and causing her to behave differently? I don't know.

This is coming to a head because Vera lives with my granddad but owns her own home which she is now planning to sell to free up money. My granddad is concerned that this money will go to her gambling addict son and she will be left penniless and with no assets. He wants to draw up a cohabitation agreement to ensure Vera gets nothing if he dies, to protect my dad's and uncle's inheritance.

But I'm terrified that his concerns about Vera - who still seems to be behaving normally to us - are paranoia and he's going to end up trying to force an unfair agreement on her and leave her in a terrible position. I don't know why they don't just break up when there is clearly no love and trust - but I think he feels dependent on her. I fear he's using her, but I also fear he's seeing a side of her that is hidden from us and that we will fail to support him.

I don't know how to proceed from here. We keep having fraught and emotional conversations with him that go nowhere. He seems paralysed by anxiety, and I just feel helpless in the face of it.

I think your grandpa needs to shift the majority of his money into an account, that Vera cannot access for starters. It doesn’t have to be in a malicious way. Just use the excuse that the interest rate has gone up recently and he’s moving it to a savings account. Make it a tied in slightly difficult to access one. Obviously get poa.

That's a very good idea, that would be a decent non-confrontational way of protecting it for starters

I believe him.

He obviously needs support at home so he can effectively break up with her

Yeah - I think we need to show him that he isn't dependent on her. We can definitely our support in place to help him understand that, I'm going to talk to my dad about what that's going to require this weekend.

I believe him. I think she's given away all her own money and started on his and I think her son is behind it all.

I'd be amazed if her son hadn't found the cash in the house.

And you know what - if she was on the level, she could have approached one of his sons and said, "I think you need to help your dad get his affairs in order. He's got money lying around and too many accounts - can you help him get it sorted?" That's what a decent partner would say.

I think the best time for her to leave (if that's what he wants to happen) is now, before her house is sold.

So she is avoiding seeing his family unless its key meetings about money. Her son has had access to his accounts. Your grandfather has said he is scared of her and your answer is to suggest that because she seems nice on the rare occasions you have seen her it might be in his head. Abusers are good at playing people. My dad used to beat my mother but to everyone around us they thought he was a lovely charming man. You all have a duty to protect him. I would put in a webcam and sort out his money ASAP. Also he needs to decide whether she needs to leave as this isn’t a relationship...

I believe him. I think she's given away all her own money and started on his and I think her son is behind it all.

This is what my gut is telling me too.

And you know what - if she was on the level, she could have approached one of his sons and said, "I think you need to help your dad get his affairs in order. He's got money lying around and too many accounts - can you help him get it sorted?" That's what a decent partner would say.

I hadn't really thought of it this way but it's so true. She should be wanting him to get it sorted and be protected really. It's not easy (we've been trying to get granddad to see it needs sorted for ages...) but she ought to at least want to try I think.

I think the best time for her to leave (if that's what he wants to happen) is now, before her house is sold

Definitely - I've got total confidence that if she sells her house, one way or another the money will end up going to her son.

Your grandfather has said he is scared of her and your answer is to suggest that because she seems nice on the rare occasions you have seen her it might be in his head.

It's not quite as straightforward as that - he acknowledges that for years they were happy together and had a good relationship, it's not just that we've seen her be nice on rare occasions. But I do think you're right that it's easy to hide abuse (in this case, financial) from onlookers. I've really been struggling to reconcile what I've been hearing with what I thought I knew about Vera but you're probably right that I'm not helping my granddad by doing that. A weird small part of me feels responsible for Vera because her sons are so awful. But my primary responsibility has to be towards granddad.

I think what Hairy and Hollowtalk have said make a lot of sense. She’s never available to see you. I suspect she’s afraid of being rumbled. Dhs cousin did something similar to his mother. She also had poa for her own mother and she and her son stole all her mother’s money.

Can you freeze all of your father’s bank accounts apart from the current one?

Can you freeze all of your father’s bank accounts apart from the current one?

Dad's going to try and get them all closed down and the money moved into a savings account with regular monthly transfers into a current account - the only issue is whether granddad actually knows all the accounts he has, but he has good paperwork records (although that's a risk in itself...) so we can hopefully track them down. The box of cash is very definitely being banked!

You may find posting this on legal will help.

Cross post. No you can’t feel responsible for Vera. Dh and I felt a certain level of responsibility to try to help his cousin. We supported him emotionally and a little financially for 10 years. Dh even got him a job in the warehouse at his company and he was a liability. His mother chose to stick by him when he went to prison for beating his father up. His mother is now penniless. We know he’s beaten her up and tried to strangle her. But she’s made her choice. We cannot stop her from worshiping at her sons feet.

Vera is making choices and bad ones, which affect her life and that of her other son. You need to walk away. You are her safety net. She is her son’s safety net. If anything your assistance would be facilitating her sons lifestyle and behaviour.

Vera is making choices and bad ones, which affect her life and that of her other son. You need to walk away. You are her safety net. She is her son’s safety net. If anything your assistance would be facilitating her sons lifestyle and behaviour.

Op - This statement explains exactly why Vera needs to move out.

I think your dad and his brother going to their house and taking away boxes of statements and letters will be a bit of a wake up call to her, but I'd make sure the bank accounts were nailed down before then.

I don't know about the money but you may see less of Vera as she may be taking advantage of your Grandad being with you to have some time to herself without worrying about him.