LGBT+ at summer camp?

[TreeSqueak]

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

YANBU.

My DD has spent the day at her camp making squishies, watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, playing football and cooking. That is what I want her to be doing in holidays not being given information that would confuse her.

No-win-no-fee only works in money claims.

It would make sense for farter fuck to offer a no-win-no-fee arrangement if Jess Bradley wanted to sue the daily mail for damages because they printed a story about Jess's denial that she did anything unlawful when she allegedly exposed her penis in public situations and at work, and ran a blog to document said penile exposures, to give penis-exposure-themed 'dares' to her blog followers, to host schoolboy themed pornography and incest rape themed pornography, and that she allegedly did these things while being the NUS national trans officer, and within a couple of years of being given the ear of the government during the trans equality inquiry, in preference to those pesky 'purported feminists' with their dull old safeguarding concerns.

It would make no sense at all to offer a no-win-no-fee arrangement if Jess Bradley merely sought an injunction on privacy grounds to prevent all media from publishing stories about any of the above alleged actions because it's not a specific action against anybody. there's no 'win' so there's no fee. There's no way for Carter Ruck to make money from it.

Either they've done this on a pro boner basis (sorry, couldn't resist) because they want to test the cliff richard ruling on something not very important but gives them woke points, or this is being funded by someone very wealthy. Because privacy is important.

I’m really pretty critical of the whole “choose your own gender” idea. But I wouldn’t have a big problem with this summer camp. If it was my ds I’d tell him that some people believe they feel strongly inside about being a boy or girl but that I have never had that feeling myself. I’m happy to be a girl but I like lots of things that more boys like. Anyone can like anything whether they’re a boy or girl. But yes, being kind to people however they present is important.

The larger political implications of what this “being kind” might lead to isn’t really relevant for primary school children I dont think.

Don't think anyone called the OP a bigot. Maybe I missed it, or maybe you're inventing it.

Op asked AIBU and outlined what was said according to the kids

Most people said yabu but check what was said and talk to your kids and isn't in lovely that it's inclusive and tolerant.

Some GC posters are trying hard to lever in some point scoring and inflammatory rhetoric, and want the OP to pursue background checks on the leaders just in case they might be radical activists infiltrating to turn kids trans. That's quite a fucked up thing to do imho.

The larger political implications of what this “being kind” might lead to isn’t really relevant for primary school children I dont think.

Might it not be just a little connected to 'stranger danger'?

Great post Pencils, with some excellent puns Makes total sense when you think about it like that.

Take them and your intolerance elsewhere.

I stand with trans people, and support organisations that seek to inform and educate people, including children, that trans gender is a real thing that exists in our society, and that it's a good thing to be respectful and tolerant of that.

Which organisations do you support? Where should people be going for their information and education?

My DD has spent the day at her camp making squishies, watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, playing football and cooking. That is what I want her to be doing in holidays not being given information that would confuse her.

So, if one of the kids at camp has two mums, they should be told to keep quiet about it in case they 'confuse' your DD?

The issue isn't with two mums, thats not at all confusing or wrong.

Telling children that some children are born in the wrong bodies, but that's ok because they can change their sex is both confusing and incorrect.

I think it's really stupid for a summer camp to be covering topics such as this without at least a buy or leave for parents. It isn't their place. They don't know the children that well or their backgrounds.

Teaching tolerance and kindness is great. Teaching children that families come in different forms is great too. Teaching children that they can actually change sex is a lie. Teaching children that we all have an inner gender identity is an article of faith not fact.

It would be interesting to know why they have identified this topic to discuss, are they also discussing race, disability, women’s rights, different abilities in school, in sports? Different personality traits? Anything that can make people be viewed differently? Or were they just trying to be in trend following the whole we can identify as any gender we like so long as in that identification we adhere to stereotypes. You never hear a man identifying as a woman, cutting their hair short not wearing make up lounging around in joggers. Interestingly I just started to answer a survey linked to my experience of giving birth. A condition of participation was being a cis woman. Now I’m willing to stand corrected by no matter how much a bloke might believe he’s a woman he won’t be giving birth any time soon. Completely pointless virtue signalling in the world of academia.

As far as I can say, the kids got a very simple explanation for L, G, B and T, and then told everyone deserves love and respect. That's all.

How on earth did you manage to miss the very bit the OP was unhappy about - that her children were told people can change sex?

@Alaaya no of course not and indeed she knows people with same sex parents and yes it did confuse her initially, so I wouldn't want it explained to her in a way that she may not be ready for. Stop shit stirring.

Teaching children kindness is of course unarguable. Teaching people about individual differences is important. There are many ways of doing without venturing into areas that a better left to trained individuals. Totally agree.

Youth leaders are not trained professionals, who even knows if they have a biology GCSE to their names? Tolerance is a great message but 'you can change sex'? More worryingly if children are just going to the camp for a week the leaders really have no idea of those children as individuals & how those primary age children will process the messages given. It's irresponsible.

Summer camp for primary age is IME ball games, crafts, making snacks, water pistols all light-hearted fun.

They don't know the children that well or their backgrounds.

Yes I think this is a very important consideration. These young camp leaders see these children for just a few weeks over a single summer. They've never met them before and they'll never meet them again.

This is not the right environment for exploring these issues.

I managed to teach PHSE every morning during LGBTQ week at my secondary school to my year 9 form without once discussing "how boys can become girls by lopping off their penises" - would have required quite a specific route through the topic! I think spending some time talking about accepting differences in society can only have been a good thing.

OP has DC who have told her what they have been told and she can pick up the conversation in whatever way she feels best. When DS was that age and went to activity weeks he usually just told me what they had for lunch. Camp is not the place for pushing an agenda.

Oh and as a science teacher I definitely dont feel confident exploring trans issues with students. It is quite possible the leaders of the holiday camp were much more capable than I would be for example.

peoplearemean I'm so glad your DD is having fun at summer camp and that there is at least one summer camp left that has fun at the heart of its mission and not brain washing! Give them a big thank you and lots of recommendations to other parents!

This IS interesting. You all visiting from angels? Or just from twitter where you are confident enough in your terfblocker?
Good to know you’ve realized you're not up to debating on FWR, so aiming for the other fish now... very telling.

Erm, it's a religious camp. Pointing the finger at the LGBT part for "pushing an agenda" "brain washing" and discussing things that some people consider to be lies or belief systems seems to miss the point of religious summer camps pretty spectacularly!

My issue with what Linning has said is that you are equating gay marriage and transgenderism, when they are very different things. What this thread, and all the others, demonstrates is that we all have opinions or beliefs on trans issues but we do not have adequate knowledge at this time to make statements. Especially not to very young children since it is all so complex and nuanced and many faceted. So when you said "gay marriage is legal" - brill - it's a fact. And when you said "personally my opinion is.." - OK, fair enough, but bear in mind that as a figure of authority, your opinion will count for a lot in their minds. When it comes to trans issues, I don't believe you're in a position to state facts. You can say "some people believe" in the same way we can describe religious issues. It's not accurate to make blanket statements about dysphoria etc., because then you have the people who say hey, I'm under the trans umbrella but I don't have dysphoria. Things need to be in simple terms for little kids, and I just think it's dangerous to create beliefs you can change sex.

Secondly, not a topic for summer camp.

Oh and as a science teacher I definitely dont feel confident exploring trans issues with students. It is quite possible the leaders of the holiday camp were much more capable than I would be for example.

Quite possibly. You might not want the likes of Mermaids or Gendered Intelligence to "explore trans issues" with your kids though. It's quite possible the leaders (to be capable) have received training from a trans org in doing this.

Maybe but the most likely scenario is that they skirted around the meaning of LGBT+ and coloured in rainbow flags. My point was in response to the comment about the youth leaders not being trained professionals and potentially not having a biology GCSE - I am a trained professional and biology teacher and am still not up for the discussion.