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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

“Freemasons to admit women, but only if they first joined as men”

25 replies

recluse · 02/08/2018 08:56

Re trans - I agree that women’s rights to safe spaces need to be protected, and that the changes in the law might make vulnerable women more vulnerable.

Having said that, people transitioning or who want to, undoubtedly need support and help. It seems that the law changes are blunt instruments and are not looking at the bigger picture - ie. the rights of vulnerable women who might be targeted by people abusing the new situation (hopefully a minority of people).

This is my take on the situation anyway.

Having said that - THIS - just takes the biscuit - on many levels .

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/01/freemasons-to-admit-women-but-only-if-they-first-joined-as-men

Slightly different to the current issue in that these would be women who had completely transitioned (I suppose), but that really says it all - you can join - as long as you started off as a man.

Or am I missing something?

Why do the Freemasons exclude women anyway (apart from their two women only lodges)?

OP posts:

SlothSlothSloth · 02/08/2018 08:59

Why do the Freemasons exclude women anyway

Because the entire purpose of the Freemasons is to cement patriarchal power.

TheRoadLessRocky · 02/08/2018 09:04

Why would transwomen want to be masons? It's a male organisation. If they feel they are genuinely female and insist on using female spaces then they should self-exclude from male spaces.

I actually agree with the Masons on this, they're going off biological sex. I just don't see how transwomen can say they want be masons when they insist they're real women.

ShatnersWig · 02/08/2018 09:07

Why do the Freemasons exclude women anyway?

Why do any female organisations exclude men?

Presumably, because their members want to.

Sparklingbrook · 02/08/2018 09:08

According to a recent AMA with a Freemason there are two different branches. One that accepts women and onr that doesn't.

YeTalkShiteHen · 02/08/2018 09:09

The Stars is the female equivalent of the Masons, it’s not the same because they can talk about it.

Still the same twattery though.

hearmyvoice · 02/08/2018 09:09

just what I was about to say sparklingbrook

Sparklingbrook · 02/08/2018 09:10

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3314564-Im-a-Freemason-AMA?pg=1

MissSusanSays · 02/08/2018 09:14

Gosh, how transphobic of the Freemasons. They are essentially admitting that they think transwomen are actually men.

Hilarious. Own goal there from Edward Lord.

Flowerfae · 02/08/2018 09:15

I'm married to one (freemason not trans) I don't understand why anyone male/female would want to be a freemason, it's boring and weird. Gets him out of my way a few times a week though, so what the heck? I agree with a few of the other posters asking 'why would a trans-woman, want to be a freemason if its a male thing?' though.

BareBelliedSneetch · 02/08/2018 09:17

So can we self-ID as male, join as a man, and then detransition and stay a member as a woman?

NewYearNewMe18 · 02/08/2018 09:17

Gosh, how transphobic of the Freemasons. They are essentially admitting that they think transwomen are actually men.

^^ lovely bit of projected spin there.

What they are saying is they aren't discriminating against transgender members and wont force them to resign or withdraw membership.

YeTalkShiteHen · 02/08/2018 09:18

So can we self-ID as male, join as a man, and then detransition and stay a member as a woman?

No, you have to have been born male in their specific criteria. So a transwoman born male is allowed in, a transman born female isn’t.

Basically the masons are saying they don’t believe you can change gender if you strip it all back.

MissSusanSays · 02/08/2018 09:21

NewYearNewMe18

If that was the case then they would admit transmen with no questions asked. However, the guidance is that transmen need to have fully transitioned to apply.

Ergo- men, in whatever state are fine. But women need a penis to apply.

This is exactly the same as what feminists and women’s groups are asking for in single sex spaces I.e- transwomen who are post op are welcome but people with a penis aren’t. We are being called transphobic bigots.

Please tell me what the difference is? Why are the Freemasons transphobic for not considering transmen who are pre-op for membership?

Pickleypickles · 02/08/2018 09:22

I didn't see the problem with this nth unless I'm missing something? If you joined as a man you can stay (could argue why would you want to if you are a "woman" but that's a different argument) and if you have transitioned in to being a man you can join. Seems fair to me?

ianwesterdahl · 01/12/2018 20:16

If you want to know about the masons then read about it from somebody who used to be a member:

themasons.blog

bestideaeva · 02/12/2018 14:44

Why shouldn't men have male only spaces? Girl Guides is only for girls. What they're saying is they won't kick you out for changing your gender.

It seems to me that this is a pathetic attempt to moan about Freemasons or trans people.

HamiltonCork · 02/12/2018 14:47

Well the guides will kick you out if you change gender. They will accept trans girls though.

RoboticMary · 02/12/2018 14:47

If they only want to admit men - fine by me. Why do people have such a problem with that?

BackforGood · 02/12/2018 14:48

I agree bestideaeva

Though, that said, you can be a woman freemason so it's all another fuss about nothing.

UpstartCrow · 02/12/2018 14:50

Why shouldn't men have male only spaces? Girl Guides is only for girls.
No it isn't. Neither is the WI.
And comparing any women's groups with a men only secret society is hilarious whataboutery that makes men look bitter.

Elfinablender · 02/12/2018 14:54

So, transwomen are women, real women are cis-women and trans-men are 'not men'? It's almost like there is a pattern about who gets to define themselves and who doesn't.

NicoAndTheNiners · 02/12/2018 14:55

I think ManFriday need to get on this.

They can identify as a man, join, then revert back to being a woman. Sorted.

NicoAndTheNiners · 02/12/2018 15:00

The article says that those who have transitioned from female to male can join.

Also says "“It should also be noted that people who the law classifies as female will still be exempt from membership of UGLE"

So it sounds like if you have a GRC you're ok. But I also thought it was illegal for organisations to ask to see your GRC? Or is that incorrect. LM said it on twitter so it may be bollocks.

bestideaeva · 02/12/2018 15:10

@UpstartCrow

No, getting shitty when someone suggests that men can have men-only groups and thinking it's bitterness to compare it to women's only groups makes you look moronic.

Tell me why men can't have male-only spaces? It isn't secret, by the way.

ianwesterdahl · 02/12/2018 16:21

Publicly the Grand Lodges are saying that Freemasonry is open to Transgender and gay people. The reality is quite different. Just have a look at some of the threads on the UGLE’s website where the topic is discussed. The majority of the rank and file members are strongly opposed to it.

Flip