To ask how you get an impolite, non-listening 7.5 year to behave without consequences?

[Pushpins40]

Amazing son yada yada but doesn't listen, pushes lots of boundaries and can have lots of attitude - but also be adorable.

Yesterday, he completely disobeyed us twice and lost his tablet time. Cue meltdown. But sort of better rest of day.

Today, back being impolite and ignoring instructions. Cue sanctions.

But does it even work? I can't tell. And what worries me is I have 3 years or so before teenage years kick in and I 'lose' him to independence - I want to feel close to him so he'll confide, not alienated and him doing stuff without telling us for fear of consequences.

I would try to pick a quiet moment, and sit down with him to ask why he does things which he knows makes you cross, and leads to him loosing his tablet?

I hope it works because I’m doing it too. Just make sure you catch him being adorable (or even a little bit good) and acknowledge it to him.

You can also make very clear the behaviour you want and offer a reward. My feeling is positive attention > negative attention > no attention. If you see what I mean.

Watching with intetest, I could have written your post!

You setting boundaries and pushing back when he tries it on is what will make him feel safe and secure. Make sure that ‘owning up’ and ‘taking responsibility’ is praised. Adjust the consequences if he is particularly quick to own up or if he is very slow to seem to get the point. It’s a relentless battle in many ways but he is testing you. Don’t fail him by wanting to be a friend and not a Mum. Be his BMF not BFF. Good luck. We are battle scared but if all stick together we can do this

Thanks all.

We've had so many chats about it - he's very closed up - and he gets lots of praise and love but nothing shifts. If anything he keeps trying harder to push back and not listen!

I think it's normal for 7 year olds to push boundaries, they're beginning to assert their independence more. We struggle a lot with listening. Ours isn't wilfully naughty, but he's impetuous and lacks focus so we have to repeatedly ask him to do things and if we ask him to do several things he'll invariably forget at least one of them. Consistency of boundaries and reprimands is the only advice I have, repeat them and repeat them again. Also, we've started giving ours a bit more trust and freedom on the understanding that if he breaks that trust he's not mature enough to handle it. Things like trusting him to turn off tv in five minutes, or when the programme ends.

It's beginning to pay off - he's finally begun clearing up after himself without us having to ask!

So basically what you’re saying is that you are trying to raise him without having to discipline him but want him to behave well?

Positive parenting goes a long way. And will stop a lot of bad behaviour kicking off. But no consequences for actual bad behaviour is dangerous in my opinion. I think not teaching a child about consequences will lead to them being utterly destroyed in the real world where consequences are far more serious than losing iPad time.

The sanctions will work eventually if they are appropriate and he (reluctantly) understands them. But he is currently engaged in the "wear them down" strategy, and it could be disastrous if he learns that, if he persists, you will eventually throw in the towel. Your use of "us" indicates that you have another team member on your side; present a united front, and don't let him play one off against the other!
Also, try to ensure that things go better for him when he behaves well. I appreciate that sometimes "catch them being good" can require ninja observational skills when they are being good so fleetingly, but if your sanctions are reasonable, they are giving him security.

Yes agree very much with 'catch them being good'. We've just been through a phase of lying and have focused very much on praising him when he's told the truth (even if it takes some time getting there). We also heap praise on him for helping us with his little sister (he's a great big brother) and generally being patient and understanding.

Instead of punishing him when he’s misbehaving , reward him when he follows the rules . Lay out expectations of what you want him to do and how he is to behave . Good behaviour = screen time , pocket money , friend over etc There’s no magic wand I’m afraid and it’s incredibly frustrating at times .

Whatever you do Do Not make empty threats . They’re clever little buggers .

Without consequences, I don't think you can.

There needs to be consquences and he needs to understand that it is his choice to engage in whatever behaviour leads to the sanction.

Make sure that the sanctions are proportionate and easy to implement.

I am not sure why you think your son won't open up to you in the future just because you discipline him.

What I meant by consequences...not opening up...is if he feels too got at, he'll get even more sly with his behaviour. Currently, he strikes this bizarre balance between being really honest and open and great - and utterly wilful, demanding, boundary pushing and rude.

I feel like I praise a lot but he's wilful a lot. So it feels like praise gets negated.

I have ALWAYS believed in consequences, irrelevant of all the positive parenting manuals that I've read. I just feel slightly despairing that we're not making progress - some days going back.

And he'll do something, then look at me BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE's DOING OR SAYING SOMETHING HE SHOULDN'T.

I hate being strict/firm mum all day every day

I used to find that the "try that again" strategy worked well with mine at that age. Basically it gives them an opportunity to immediately correct what might well have been an impulsive behaviour and get an immediate reward of praise, plus it's "practice" for doing the right thing. Sometimes prefaced by a comment like "In this house, we ask for things politely" and then "Can you try that again, please?"

www.onebighappyhome.com/2013/07/05/lets-try-that-again/

I hate being strict/firm mum all day every day
I know exactly what you mean, but stick with it it will pay off.
I had one like that and between about four and seven life was one long round of lost privileges.
Then one day I suddenly realised I hadn't had to dole out punishment/ consequences for ages. He was a well behaved joy thereafter (and still is at 22).

Suggestions I might add.
Find more privileges to remove, not just the tablet, so you can escalate and so he always has more to lose (sounds horrible I know but they can just be little things).
Maybe a bit less of the praise for just doing what's expected.
You say you've had lots of chats. Maybe do a really big scary one. Sit him down between you and his father and talk about how he thinks he should behave.

Nobody likes being strict, but it's the best thing for him. Think long-term.

OP, I've found this book quite helpful.

www.amazon.co.uk/Talk-Little-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/184812614X/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ref=plSrch&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+and+listen+so+kids+will+talk&dpPl=1&dpID=51py9Tuge6L&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1533041923&sr=8-2

Some of the techniques are simple but effective. It talks a lot about acknowledging their feelings, considering whether your request is reasonable/ necessary, deflecting them from the activity you want to stop and encouraging the behaviour you want to see.

Pick your battles, avoid avoidable situations which trigger battles. Firm limits but not too many of them. Lots of immediate feedback in the form of negative and positive consequences. Delayed and proxy rewards (sticker charts etc) may not work with this sort of child.

Try telling him that there will be a consequence but not what it is. Then he can't "choose" whether it is worth continuing the bad behaviour or not as he won't know how bad the consequence will be. Also this gives you thinking time, rather than picking a consequence that you can't carry out or are reluctant to carry out and you can also amend the severity of it if required. . You can also make up pretend consequences like. "well we were going to the park but now we are not" - when you had no intention of going to the park in the first place. They think there was a consequence and you've done or lost nothing.

The most important "rule' though is to carry out

Jjjigggoo - I LOVE the pretend consequence. Smart!

Cue meltdown
Do you actually mean meltdown, or do you mean tantrum? Not being pedantic, it's just that they require different handling. If my daughter is having a tantrum, I let her get on with it. If she is having a meltdown, I help her through it. Strict and firm has never worked with her - the more boundaries I enforce, the worse her behaviour gets. If I work to remove possible sources of anxiety, then she behaves very well. I think she loses impulse control when she is stressed. Anyway, just putting it out there that sometimes normal parenting strategies aren't the solution.

I LOVE the pretend consequence.

Don't wish to be rude OP, but if you are trying to move away from consequences as a way to get closer to your son, why do you think that pretending to give consequences will help? Surely either he will see through this and know that you're calling his bluff or he thinks they are real and you're in exactly the same place as you are now.

Instead of a consequence for poor behaviour, have rewards for good behaviour. ie he earns tablet time/ tv time /pocket money.
Keep the rewards on a daily basis, don't say if you're good all week you can have your pocket money. If they slip up on Tuesday for example, then they have no reason to behave for the rest of the week.

Please don't pretend there will be a consequence. Be honest and clear. Kids aren't stupid and it just sounds confusing.

Do you have any other children? My 7.5yo plays up most when he (probably subconsciously) needs quality 1-2-1 time with me. Do you have a slot soon where you could do this? I always think they need quality time together when that's the last thing you want to do as they're being a nightmare! I've been where you are, feeling like you're in a negative punishment cycle and it's miserable. A bit of a treat afternoon is lovely and will give him the chance to talk to you properly.

Other thing is choose one behaviour you want to change. Get him to make a reward chart. Agree on a prize if he keeps it up for 5 days/7 days. Gives him something to focus on. Keep it simple though.