To want to knock sense into family over local area....

[woolythoughts]

I grew up in a city well known for jokes about stealing car wheels etc. I always felt as though I didn’t fit in and left as soon as I could. I couldn’t deal with the chip on shoulder attitude of a lot of residents - we’d be such a great city again if it wasn’t for or near neighbour city sucking everything up.

My family still live there so I come back and visit regularly. When I point out that:

1. Every supermarket I’ve been in won’t take the security tag off at the self service until you’ve actually paid is something I’ve only see here - most other places will do it after they’ve approved it or as you are scanning

1. A lot of the local petroleum stations and convenience stores won’t take contactless due to fraud

1. Virtually every petrol station limits fuelling to 50 litres - you have to pay then go back and filll the rest of the tank!

There are many other small things which when added together don’t make for a good environment.

I point this out and I get told everywhere is like this these days.

No it isn’t !

It’s only to be expected a

No it isn’t!

But god forbid I suggest there is actually a problem and I get told not to slag off my home town.

I guess the reason I’m angry is we came up in a new car this weekend which promptly got keyed when parked up.

Family are obviously sympathetic but in general there is a view that what do you expect driving a car like that here and if you can afford said car you can afford to fix it.

Hat sort of attitude is prevalent and I’ve hated it since I was old enough to realise it existed!

I just want to shake the family and make them realise it’s not like that everywhere!

If you hadn't of said Liverpool I'd have said it was outside areas of Glasgow ie the Gorbals

What a load of shit from some posters here. Do you not think we were collectively devastated about that lovely boy being murdered (13 years ago today) ?
There are pockets of roughness in every city, especially one that was systematically targeted for demise by the government. Then the incessant media portrayal of thieves, dole scum, victims.
Then the cover up of Hillsborough.
Many people are naturally suspicious and prickly.
I live here, I drive a poncey car, I often leave my doors open, I can fill my car up to £99, I've never had any car vandalised, and have lived in some less desirable postcodes.
I touch all the wine I want, my children are well behaved and if anything, young for their years.
If you are from Liverpool, you'll know that scousers are fiercely protective and proud of the place, for someone to return as Hyacinth Bucket and pour scorn on their life and choices will obviously breed contempt.
I honestly get a lump in my throat when I'm driving into town at how far it's come as a city, how beautiful it is, how much it's got going for it.
My DH came for uni and said he couldn't leave again
OP I'm sorry that happened to your car, but think you'll be surprised at how many brand new luxury cars are the norm up here these days. Enjoy your trip.

If you hadn't of said Liverpool I'd have said it was outside areas of Glasgow ie the Gorbals

The Gorbals is not an outside area of Glasgow ~ it's central, just south of the river ~ also massively redeveloped.

Some places are holes, why pretend otherwise?
I lived in Coventry in the late 70s; it was a hole then and when I go back I see that it's still a hole.

You or probably seem quite snobby banging on about it OP

You sound really insensitive. What do you expect them to go about it? Do you think they are all going to say "oh Wooly you're right! We will move house tomorrow!"

I don't know what you THINK their response to you putting their town down should be?

I knew it'd be somewhere in Liverpool (I'm from Yorkshire and think it's a fab city - much prefer it to Manchester).

I don't really understand why you need them to agree with your assessment that it's a dump. They won't, because they choose to live there. And if you hate it that much why do you need a pat on the back from them for moving? Is the pleasure of living somewhere "nicer" not enough?

I don't go on about it as such.

A typical scenario would be the one that triggered the above post.

Try to buy a cheap £5 pair of headphones which are security tagged (really, a cheapo set of headphones?). Scanning stuff at till and the supervising cashier is not doing anything so ask him to remove the security tag. Got told in no uncertain terms he count do it until I'd actually paid for it and had the receipt. Of course, by the time I'd finished he was busy doing something else so I had to wait.

Then go to fill up with fuel at local supermarket with no pay at pump. Pump shuts off at 50 litres. Go into kiosk to ask WTF and got told I have to pay for that before I can have more. Said kiosk has more re-inforced glass between the cashiers and the customers than your average bank.

I get home and have a rant about the above and got told its normal in this day and age. Won't accept that, actually, its not.

I point out to my family that they get all defensive and offended when people make jokes about Liverpool but given the above, they can hardly be surprised. Then I pointed out that cliches are only cliches because there is normally an element of truth in it.

I just don't understand why people won't accept that there are issues which are not universally present everywhere in the same volume.

The poster above said:

"There are pockets of roughness in every city, especially one that was systematically targeted for demise by the government. Then the incessant media portrayal of thieves, dole scum, victims. "

The city was targeted for demise because it was controlled by militant and something had to be done about it. The media portrayal is largely based on the truth otherwise there would be no need for the measures above.

This is a prime example of what I mean.

Which ‘militants’ controlled Liverpool to the extent that ‘something had to be done about it’?

OP, if you go home to see your family regularly surely these measures aren’t a continual surprise requiring a ‘rant’ at family members? I can see either instance you mention as being mildly inconvenient, but not something that would involve lengthy complaints about the area to people who live there.

YADNBU, however fuel theft is a huge problem here in the West Midlands and pay before you pump is becoming more common here as well.

Boy racers, Saturday night 'cruises' and crime involving vehicles are a big thing, as huge portions of the West Mids is built around cars.

But no, you sound like your family need to give their heads a wobble and get out more.

As a rule, you never go back and criticize your area to those who are still living there. What they will hear is that you think you are better than them and that your life is better than theirs, even if you don't mean it that way. I come from a little place in Northern Ireland. Nothing could persuade me to move back there for a multitude of reasons, but when I am there, visiting friends and relatives who have stayed in the area, I keep my big mouth shut. For one thing, it isn´t all negative staying in the one place, I see that they have a closeness to the area and community that I will never have, and I am a little envious of that.

OP there's no need to garage your family about it though. Keep your negativity about the area to yourself

Think every city and outlying areas have similar. Liverpool, wrongly seems to have this tag that everyone is like op's family.
I lived in Liverpool (just finished uni) for a few years and was quite shocked at going into bargain booze at first, bullet proof glass up and a little hole to hand your stuff over. That was Smithdown. We bought our first to a different area and it was a bit better.
We loved our friends and nightlife in Liverpool.
Colleagues, were not so nice. Always going on about compensation, keying cars and letting tyres down.
Parts of Machester and Leeds are the same.
You can't write off one city, I'm don't think OP is doing that.
But, am I making observations about a social underclass? Not intentionally and, I am maybe thinking that only education can end problems like this?

I just don't understand why people won't accept that there are issues which are not universally present everywhere in the same volume.

Because they aren't?
You're being responded to by many of us who actually live here who don't have, have never had the issues that you speak of, because they are limited to small areas of the city.

I actually commented in Tesco the other day that the £12 bags of salmon fillets should have the security sticker on them and the cashier just laughed.

It's amusing that you accuse your family of being unaware of a cliche when you're acting like a walking one yourself.
Leaving your 'poor' hometown and making it, then returning to run a metaphorical gloved finger along the mantelpiece and screw your nose up.

Why not try to see the thousands of lovely things when you go back - comment on those instead, you'll all have a far nicer time.

I don't know anything about security tags, petrol pumps or whatever. These seem like minor inconveniences, why did you rant to your family about them? It's just rude. Why do you want to make them admit it's a shithole? That'll make them feel great won't it .

Everyone keeps saying, why do you want them to say it's worse than other places? And you just keep saying, because I want them to say it's worse than other places!

As an aside, I agree it's probably no different to the rough bits in any big city. In Manchester the shelves in the offies are lined in plastic and you have to ask the shop assistant for everything in some places; and my car window was smashed and my dry cleaning was stolen out of it once.

Don't blame you a bit OP as I am not very impressed with my hometown either. I don't live in a very posh bit of the country but there is more money, and more importantly a more positive attitude to life. Its fine for people who have always lived somewhere lovely to say you should be pleased when you go back. Personally I'm pretty glad to get back to new home to what I now recognise as normality.

I think its because they keep banging on about how great liverpool is without acknowledging it isnt!

On a basic level, why do you want your family to agree with you on this?
I don’t understand what’s in it for them or you? What positive impact do you imagine it will have for any of you if they think badly of their home town?

Please enlighten me as to why this matters to you so much?

All that happens in the shittest bits of London, never experienced it anywhere nice, by nice I'm including Croydon...

Always think it's funny when people get overly defensive about the place they live

Flip your last comment round - that's you. Is that any more acceptable?

It's all about perspective. My work colleague grew up around the corner from where my grandparents lived.

Five cars belonging to the family were stolen from outside their house (uncle's, grandad's etc). My dad was always standing up to watch his when we visited.

When I told my colleague where they lived, she said 'ooh, there are some nice houses around there!'. To her, it was the nice place to live.

YABU to have a go at their home. Yes, it was yours too, but surely you have plenty of people in your new home you can moan about it to?

I grew up in the Lakes. Most people ask me why the hell I left. I love it, absolutely, but there aren't great jobs there. One guy though is really sneery about 'nothing to do' (he says that about Cornwall too...). It pisses me off.

It's territorial. Just complain to people who don't care.

Why on earth are you mentioning it to them, it is coming across as patronizing. Keep your own counsel, smile and talk about the old days and how nice it is to come home. They still live there, you are just making them feel defensive.

I grew up outside of Liverpool and married a Scouser.
Bootle might be deprived and in need of development but you can't just say the whole of Liverpool is shit!
Have you been in the city centre lately? have you visited other areas?
Bootle isn't a city either. Its a town under Sefton council.
it all depends where you live. We live on the outskirts and have pay AT pump available with no limit, cars are never keyed and shops you can walk around and pick up the booze you want.
As for "The media portrayal is largely based on the truth" - yeah right because the Sun did such a great job reporting on Hillsborough !

I get where you’re coming from (pun intended) but no-one likes to hear their town dissed even if they secretly agree, so probably best to keep those observations to yourself.

I can see why you're fucked off about your car, but otherwise you sound pretty ridiculous.

The solution to this problem is you not yarning on to your family about headphones, contactless etc. Especially when plenty of the things you mention in fact do happen elsewhere- and no I dont live in Liverpool. Just get a grip of yourself.

I think its because they keep banging on about how great liverpool is without acknowledging it isnt!

From another perspective, I moved to Liverpool 6 years ago and stayed here because of how much I love it. Neither have I come across any of the problems you describe e.g fuel limits and I lived in Kensington and now Norris Green!

ALL cities have areas of affluence and areas of deprivation. All city centres have late night off licenses with the alcohol behind glass screens. I have lived in Sheffield and spent a lot of time in Manchester and neither compare to the culture that Liverpool has. It's brilliant here. So brilliant that I'm about so start a family here.

YAB massively U to class Bootle as Liverpool which is what you're doing. As PP said, it's not even Liverpool council but Sefton.