To think actually, they should give IV antibiotics to my (likely) autistic child?

[MrSpock]

Ended up in A&E with DS1, who’s 3, after his temperature went to 40.1 at 3am a few nights ago and he was not himself. He had recently had grommets and he’s got an ear infection.

Prescribed amoxicillin.

This would be fine, except DS1 is being assessed for autism and has sensory issues. He will not take antibiotics. It’s not a simple job of refusing, it’s a whole kicking, screaming, biting affair and it takes two adults an hour to administer it. He had a panic attack last time and I’ve never seen him so frightened. I can’t explain how severe it is, it doesn’t sound bad written down but it is.

I rang the department and asked for them to admit him and administer IV. He’s had cannulas before and isn’t anywhere near as bad with them, but they said no and told me to “hold him down and be cruel to be kind”

DS1 thinks he’s being tortured. All day today he’s hid in a corner, bit me, kicked me, and his speech which has been coming on was replaced by screams all day. He’s cried constantly and gestured for me to go away even when not giving the medicine. he won’t let me, his dad, my mum or my dad anywhere near him and has had what was effectively an all day meltdown.

Am I wrong for thinking they should just admit him and treat him?! Autistic kids don’t respond the way NT kids do. Any advice would be lovely :(

@Chinnyreckoning did you read that the op has adhd, aspergers and is pregnant? So, yeah maybe she didn't deal with it in the same way someone else might have but she's probably really struggling with it.

what lady peacock said. it's horrible but you really are being cruel to be kind. doctors hardly give antibiotics these days so I think he does need them.

Definitely swaddle, and act breezy. I really feel for you, because it’s horrible. I’m a single parent so had to manage with only one pair of hands. This was the only way.

We had the exact same problem with our 3 year old, who is diagnosed ASD. We had to hold him down, and he put up one hell of a fight. But after 2 days of screaming / fight / biting, he just accepted that it was something he had to take and I wasn’t backing down. I felt if I gave in and didn’t administer it, because DS can be very rigid in his thinking, he would just fight harder and longer the next time a dose was needed.

Good luck - it really was horrible and I was getting to the end of my tether with it too.

My DS is very similar and needed meds all his life due to severe reflux. He developed sensory aversion and we had a real job getting him on even partial solids before 2. He has a limited range of foods he will eat. Now he is older we can reason that the medicine will help good bugs fight bad etc. But often we have to syringe it in with two of us. Not pleasant but unless we ca hide in yoghurt which sometimes works there is no option.

DD (AS) has never in her life been able to take any sort of medication. She’s 20. Not had so much as a spoon of calopl ever. The one time she needed antibiotics she had them daily intra-muscular injections at the GP surgery. That may be an option for you if they refuse the IV.

I have a dc who has a genetic condition which meant she was admitted for iv antibiotics regularly when she was little. Has your ds ever been admitted for iv's? It's really not easy. I've had to administer many medications, nebuliser and all sorts over the years so I totally understand how distressing it is to do it and see your ds like that but an admission for iv's is not the answer and would be a lot more traumatic for ds and you. So I think you are BU.
Feel for you though, it's bloody awful

2 adults an hour to administer the dose?! Did I read that correctly? If so you've pussy footed about and ramped the anxiety and created the panic attacks. It takes a few seconds to safely hold a 3 year old and make them take medicine. Use a towel if needed. Squirt at the back of the throat. Hold nose if needed. Immediately offer sweet. Job done.
Yes it's traumatic for a few seconds but its in the child's best interests.
I'm sorry but I think you'd exaccerbated the whole thing by not being decisive

You’re welcome to try if you think you can do better.

My DS is much larger than an average three year old. He’s also very strong. When he had his grommets done, the healthcare staff couldn’t get obs done because they couldn’t hold him down. He is massive and gets violent.

Nursery workers struggle to hold him as well.

So me, my partner, my mum, paediatric nurses, and childcare staff all have the same issue but sure, we’re all doing it wrong. 👍🏼

www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Booja-Booja-Organic-Hunky-Punky-Chocolate-Dairy-Free-Ice-Cream/94628011?ULP_CAMPAIGN_ID=52&gclid=CjwKCAjwy_XaBRAWEiwApfjKHroj6pHyXg2anGTOwKAGe2UkLxGnEqus-wXLufnw50yUBF_73y6JrhoCYJYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CM64q4-SxdwCFVEX0wodpQEB9g

Dairy and soya free chocolate ice cream.

Administering oral medication can be difficult with children, but it is not an indication to give IV antibiotics. Admitting him to hospital and giving him a canulla would also be very distressing, and carry an infection risk.

@chinnyreckoning
Do you have any experience with asd children?

I have nothing useful to say OP, justcwanted to send a hand hold - your poor DS and poor you. Hope you manage to get something he can tolerate and that he’s feeling better soon

It is horrible, and you do feel mean doing it, but the swaddle and pub method really will take five minutes if you are committed. A big enough bath sheet will restrain arms and legs, straddling the child gives further restraint and doesn’t hurt them at all. You do have to be firm.

He might be a big three year old, but he is still three. You can over power him, calmly and firmly. Squeeze his cheeks so his mouth purses open a bit, and get the syringe as far fine the side of his mouth as you can. Keep a hold of his face until he has swallowed it jeroingbthe Emory syringe in if necessary.. if you allow him to turn he will spit it out.

You need to be resolute in this if he needs these meds, otherwise you’re just prolonging it and he’ll learn that the harder he fights the more you’ll give in.

Good luck!

You know him best. I absolutely think they should listen to you and administer them via IV. I feel so sorry for you, hope you manage to get them into him. Your poor boy.

I’m not even sure what I meant by ‘swaddle and pub’?! 😳

God... so many typos, sorry!! 😬

hibbledibble thank you! I’m going to order some of this, as it might prove useful

Could you ask for the injection, instead? I asked for it last time I needed antibiotics and I don't think I will ever buy antibiotics in pills ever again! One shot above the bum and that is it.

Plus, it is much better for the digestive system.

I really feel for you. My boys are 22 months and one has complex health needs, and is being assessed for ASD / similar issues. He’s not violent or aggressive at all but in the last six months has been increasingly panicked by medical procedures after having had so many. An eye exam a few months ago was absolutely horrific, took several of us to pin him down and then his eyes prised open while he screamed. Then he needed a GA last month and he became like a cornered animal, I’ve never seen him like that. He won’t even let me fasten clothes that fasten at the shoulders, any hand near his face and he absolutely panics.

We’ve been referred for portage and at a portage group I met the community paediatric nurse who supports kids with special needs in our area. She was absolutely lovely and has given me her number to call me any time if I need help with things. I’m wondering if there’s a service like that where you are? They may be able to come and help you administer, or give you some strategies.

I had to hold him while he had a camera down his nose / throat, and they used the sheet trick - it was bloody awful, but took much longer than administering medicine. I completely understand the fear that he will hold it against you.

How many doses has he had? The problem is, if you’ve started the course but don’t finish it, it may become ineffective for him in future.

If you got a syringe for you and one for dad and one for him, then you show him both of you taking yours (just water or squash or something), might he then do it? Give his favourite treat afterwards? Mine is too young to do this with yet.

Sending hugs and

chinny WTF.

It'sMrSpock people don't get that - my dd is 14 and she's still not included in her care

New research has shown most ear infections are viral and settle without antibiotics - old research suggested antibiotics always necessary however new school of thinking is that amoxicillin is often futile - not sure it helps but good luck whatever happens!

SinkGirl

it’s hard isn’t it.

A cornered animal is how I would describe DS at the moment. Cowering and lashing out.

He’s had four doses. It’s supposed to be three times daily but we’ve only got it in twice daily so far, and we don’t know the amount he’s actually had as he was spitting, gargling, and generally trying to not take it.

We discovered that our SPD/ASD eldest could take tablets! We were astounded! It’s always with something he knows he shouldn’t have, like coke, but he just pops them down and has done since he was teeny. But won’t take anything liquid ever. Might be worth a try...

MrSpock stealth was the only route for us. I used to give them a healthy snack and myself a bowl of ice cream (dairy free pot) in front of them. Then say this is mum’s special treat for her do you want to try some? Give a spoonful. Hopefully your child likes it and wants some more.

Then I asked them to do something a job, put toys away, wash hands etc to earn a bowl of ice cream (dairy free pot). Whilst they are busy earning the treat mix in a half dose so they can’t taste it and serve.

Works better with matching flavours e.g Capol in strawberry ice cream etc

A new food would potentially work well as they do not know what to expect taste wise.

The forced administration of medicine is traumatic for us too. You are not doing it wrong.