How long should a new car last?

[CrossPanda]

Hello All, I am an old timer (even made it into the first book!). I have set up a new profile, as today we are going public with our car troubles.

I have owned my Fiat Panda Cross for three and a half years and it has been one issue after another. Am I being unreasonable to think that a new car should last more than three and a half years and that a car with this service history is not fit for purpose?

The basic service history is below and the Q code is on fb and Twitter.

Right now my husband is sat outside the local Fiat garage with the car and signs (with Q code) in the window.

We have a twitter account

twitter.com/whyismypandacr1

And a Facebook Page

m.facebook.com/CrossPanda

www.honestjohn.co.uk Is always worth a look too.

This car’s service history:
When 7 months old, rear differential replaced.
Since then, this car has had two engine control units replaced, the turbo refurbished, two sets of wheel bearings replaced and a boot repaint due to an incorrect part being fitted prior to sale as new.
Now, after fewer than 60K miles, and 7 months after warranty expired the gear box is grinding and struggling to go into gear.

So trusty Mumsnet, am I being unreasonable to think this car is not fit for purpose?

I've had some total lemons that have cost a fecking fortune just to get them to 100,000 miles.

Honda, Nissan and Vauxhall, I'm looking at you all.

You'll find me on the 'lease or buy' discussions explaining why I now generally lease.

Well I’ve just moved into this century with my cars and now hav a 04 rav 4 no real issues.

My camper van is 1981 I think so you just got a Friday car. Unlucky.

Bay cars are like everything they are built to a budget and if they can get a bearing for 10p less then they will when you add up how many they use it’s a big saving. And they only have to last the warranty period. After that they are on the make with the spare parts.

I gave up on new cars you loose to much money on them now just buy £500 bangers and run them until they brake or fail the mot and need more than £200 spending on them. Never service them so save there as well. That seems to make them last forever as they know if they cause to much hassle thier next trip will be to the scrap yard.

Its like anything else; you get what you pay for. Expensive marque cars last longer; my son's BMW is 16 or 17 and going fine.

Absolutely not true. Look at the shit show that is Volkswagen, for example. Japanese cars (Toyota, Honda, Suzuki) have been the most consistently reliable cars on the market for at least 20 years now, and South Korean cars (Hyundai, Kia) aren't sitting far behind them. They are not the most expensive cars available.

Semster have you had any issues with leasing? We are considering leasing, but are worried about what we may get stung for when it comes to handing it back.

We have done the £500 banger before and I am tempted again because it worked out really well. I found a fab little convertible KA at a scrap yard for £500. I can’t remember if we got a year or two years out of it, but either way we spent no more on it and it was a really fun little go cart for the time we had it. It went to scrap when holes were found in the floor!

Chinnyreckoning that’s awful!! Did they offer you anything as it was only 9 weeks out of warranty or did you end up paying everything? Did you find any support to fight your corner?

Thank you for all the suggestions of companies to look at, we certainly need guidance on who is the most reliable and has the best service. I can’t go through this again!

I think it also depends on the dealership OP. We love Skoda but we have some dealers we prefer over others. Our favourite one bends over backwards to make sure you are happy with your purchase. Can't comment really on how they deal with issues as we've never had any. I thought my clio was my best car ever, then I really liked my Note. However I have to say that hands down the nicest car I've driven is the Citigo. D'S has one too as it's the only small one his 6 foot 3 frame fitted into nicely. Bigger cars were sometimes a struggle for him. DH says he won't ever get rid of his Octavia and also says it's the nicest to drive he's ever had. He does like borrowing the citigo and would get one of those when he doesn't need a bigger car.

Fiat Customer Services start work in just under an hour. Hope they will come back with a solution to this now.

Its like anything else; you get what you pay for. Expensive marque cars last longer; my son's BMW is 16 or 17 and going fine.
Not necessarily.I have a Suzuki Wagon (not the most expensive of models!) which is 16 years old and it just keeps on going! Over the years I have had to have some work done on it but nothing major. It's probably worth about tuppence halfpenny by now, but it keeps passing its MOT so I keep driving it.

Our 18 year old Honda Stream (yeah, no ones ever heard of the model) only just died (clutch) it had 120k miles. We got it 4 years ago for about £800 so can’t complain! Just got a 12 year old Honda Jazz 60k miles with impeccable service history and looks brand new. Never failed an MOT. Hoping to get at least 5 years out of this one, but time will tell! Had terrible experience with Renault which has put me off French cars, I would probably only go Japanese or German.

@TinklyLittleLaugh said Its like anything else; you get what you pay for. Expensive marque cars last longer

Than what? This thread is filled with people saying they've got cars that are 10+ years old, and most of them appear to be smaller cheaper cars than expensive ones.

I've never bought an expensive car. My last new car was a basic Citroen C1 that I had for 9 years with nothing except wiper blades and tyres spent on it before I traded in for a much higher spec two years old Peugeot 107.

“Its like anything else; you get what you pay for. Expensive marque cars last longer; my son's BMW is 16 or 17 and going fine.”

People are still saying stuff like this?

My friend’s Range Rover that had £8000+ worth of repairs in two years, was off the road for three months of those?

My friend’s 2010 BMW 3 Series that needed an engine rebuild due to the infamous N52 engine issues?

Audi’s 2.0 TFSI oil consumption issues for cars between 2007-2011?

Need I go on?!

Have you bought the car on a PCP type agreement. Usually the final balloon payment is based on a guaranteed future value that the car must be worth. It's well known that certain marques are actually having to pay over value for trade ins because theyre not worth what their contracts agreed.

Sorry you're having issues and as a former Alfa owner I can only agree. After replacing the fuel injectors twice, clutch, brake discs on a 3.5 year old car, the steering column spectacularly failed whilst I was driving down a busy road I traded the piece of shit in for a mini and had a beautiful trouble free little machine for years.

Hand it back. It's likely they will have to accept it. If not, go down the watchdog route. It's not the first time FIAT have been involved in a large scale scandal.

On the flip side. My exH had a bmw. For those saying buy a BMW, you get what you pay for, Haha! That was the most unreliable piece of shit that cost a fortune to repair every time it broke. All you get when you pay more for prestige prices is a pretentious car that costs you more to fix it.

Currently driving a Clio aged 15, 127000 on the clock. Brakes, suspension, starter motor and a new battery plus servicing in the last 5 years.

Previously second hand Saxo and Peugeot 106 that both died uneconomically within 12 months of me getting them.

The only new car I ever bought was a Renault Kangoo. Kept it for 11 years and 150k miles. And I saw it again on the road about three years later.
OP - Don't know what you can do but you are definitely not being unreasonable to have higher expectations of a new car. Any modern car should be good for at least 100-120k without major problems.

I bought my Polo when it was 5 months old and kept it for 11 years before changing it. I now have a Fabia after talking to my mechanic BIL. He owns a BMW repair garage but recommends Skodas as they are the most reliable and cheap to repair cars around. He's got that from talking to other mechanics and their experience of different makes. Japanese cars are nice but very pricey for parts apparently and don't touch French cars with a barge pole, they are known in the industry for only being suitable for people wanting a car for around 3 years.

Fiat have now confirmed the 2 options open to us to get rid of this car. We can pay the value of 4 months payments now (c.£1000) and hand car back in, or hand car back in without paying and get a (V) Credit marker on our Credit refs for (up to) 6 years...

So 'pay £1000 or you may not be able to get car credit from another dealership' sums up Fiat's (FCA's) view up nicely. I'm sure there is a specific term for this type of threat!

Have to agree with mrssteveMcDonald. I’ve had 2 Skoda Fabias and a Skoda Citigo. Absolutely outstanding cars. Not one bit of trouble with any of them. So reliable, I loved driving them.

Fiats are crap cars anyway. Would rather have an older, better quality brand.

DP who has been in the motor trade forever sums up different brands
Everything in the VW group has 'bespoke engine issues' - this includes Bentley.
Anything made in Italy everything will break accept the engine.
General Motors not the prettiest, hardy work horses, thirsty.
BMW expensive, but you know it will go.
Korean/Japanese - you get a lot of car for your money well engineered and they give a 7 year warranty because you are unlikely to need it.
Chinese made ( this includes Volvo) the jury is out.
He has a poor opinion of garages now who tend to replace parts rather than fix them. He does most of our work himself his pride and joy a ten year old Astra van has 360,000 miles on the clock he drives it everyday like he stole it.

strangely i wouldn't touch a vauxhall with a shitty stick and would firmly put it in the same bracket as Fiat and Citreon. I guess we all base it on personal experiences we've had which may or may not be representative of the brand or model as a whole.

This might help?:

www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-power/64280/most-reliable-cars-to-buy-in-2017

No Fiats included!

Cross I don't really know much about how the finance works nowadays, last time I bought a car on finance it was simple HP, no final values, balloon payments and whatnot.

Are they saying that the repair costs are higher than the residual value (ignoring how many payments you have to make)? Does that make it technically a write-off?

I really don't know what to say tbh, it sounds a shit situation to be in and surely must be breaching some regulation somewhere.

Vauxhall is Holden here in Australia and it rates very poorly in terms of reliability (and safety).

CrossPanda so are they saying that if you pay the remainder of the payments you can trade it on for it’s guarenteed future value and not lose any more money on it?

They don’t sound very nice though. Can you not report them to someone higher up? I’m betting the GM just doesn’t want to lose any money on the deal.